Help IDing some British and European firearms

[Matchlock]

Hi RDGAC,

The one signed Baily can be closely dated to the last decade of the 18th c.; according to my records, only two London gunmakers are in close selection:

- Isaac (most probably), Whitechapel Rd., 1783-91
- James, Mansell St 1804, 1790-1810

The Richards pistol is of earlier date, 1760's, and seems to have been made for hunting (saddle pistol). The fore end cap is missing (originally probably of horn).

There are many Richards listed in the most comprehensive reference work on Gunmakers: Eugen Heer, Der neue Stockel, 3 vols., Schwäbisch Hall, Germany, 1979; vol. 2., pp. 1039f. The two in the inner circle are

- John, London, 1760-1821
- Thomas, Birmingham, 1747-1779+, who is also recorded for his silver
mounts

Please look for silver hallmarks and proof marks.

Best,
Michael

[RDGAC]

Egad, replies! Well, without further ado, the second pistol and the smaller of the two; some close-ups for you chaps. Plus, a new and better photo of the upper pistol's lockplate, which I read as saying "Bayley & Co.", and anm illustration of the barrel toward the breech end. I can find no proof marks at all, but haven't yet pulled the barrel on this weapon (or indeed either of them), so hidden marks might yet await us.

[RDGAC]

And the Bayley gun. Michael, if you can see any traces of the hypothesised horn end cap in the two photos above of the Richards pistol's muzzle, please point them out. Part of the deal here is that I get both the pleasure of handling these weapons and the chance to learn more about them.

[Matchlock]

Proof and hallmarks are never inside or on the underside of anywhere.

I marked both the Birmingham proof mark in its pre-1813 version and the place of the missing fore end cap.

m

[RDGAC]

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Proof and hallmarks are never inside or on the underside of anywhere.

I marked both the Birmingham proof mark in its pre-1813 version and the place of the missing fore end cap.

m

Indeed, I have never known a mark designed to be seen by the user to be hidden; nonetheless, when uncertain I find it sensible not to discount possibilities based only on what I know. Not a few times have I been caught out by that habit. The supposition may appear foolish but is generally the result of my desire to eliminate it. Cautious should be my middle name...

Anyway, thanks for marking the two things you did. Oddly I can't see much in the way of physical evidence for an end cap, save a very small protrusion just forward of the stock and ever so slightly proud of the barrel surface. Anything in particular to look for?

[Matchlock]

The wooden fore end has broken off along with the cap. Those pistols always were fully stocked. Just look at the other specimen which too is fully stocked but, as it is much later, never had a cap.

m

[Matchlock]

See?