Keris Betok on Ebay

[mykeris]

'big-name people have been fooled, including the biggest, most influential and most knowledgeable.'

Yes, you and I could be fooled too. Note: How sure are you on your budas, Alan? It could be fooled again!

[A. G. Maisey]

I bought my first keris buda in about 1970 or 1972.

I started to study them seriously in about 1980.

Apart from experience in handling both genuine and non-genuine KB's I have put together a fairly comprehensive file on KB's, including the indicators for falsification and the indicators for genuine, and the people who are known in the trade for either presenting or creating falsifications of KB's.

Yes, I could be fooled again, but not easily, and not in negatives, but only in positives. What I mean by this is that a KB could be presented to me that I mistook for genuine, when in fact it was not, however, a KB that I identified as not genuine I would be very confident was not genuine.

[mykeris]

Noted and Thanks Alan. Well said. Regards, Mykeris.

[PenangsangII]

for somebody who is technically very less knowledgeable like me, the other option would be "tayuh" by very respectable "penayuh" esp on blade that I suspect as fake or even new very well made keris (artificially aged).

But then again, some dealers manage to imbue "isian" by getting helps from some kyai or bomoh

[mykeris]

My dear Penangsang, Identification through tayuhan is something very very subjective to me, no doubt is right at times but always fall a victim to somebody else.. I would still prefer the logical way of what Alan is doing via research with concrete sampling.

However, Alan could have overlooked at something that he has never encountered before which few people did. Thus, opinion differs. Most of his samples are of deteriorated blades as a result of being buried underground hundreds of years ago. My question is: What happen to those Keris Budos which never experienced the 'ruin' and passed down with special care?. Would the blade look something horrible, 'cripple' like what Alan and I is keeping or just as smooth as it was. Could it be light in weight or how the wesi look like?

I would not swallow everything what Alan said unless he represents the Indonesian majority. However, my personal opinion is: it is still very very safe to absorb Alan's opinion due to his excellent findings and links to distinguished people of keris in Indonesia.

At the same time, I will keep my options open.

[PenangsangII]

thks mykeris, ofcourse in determining the authenticity of a keris we should thoroughly inspect the physical aspect of the blade ist... Tayuh is a totally different method and objective altogether.

I even encountered a newly made koden from madura, but when it was tayuhed, it admitted origin back in demak era..... ,-)

[David]

MyKeris, you seem to to be deeply invested in convincing us that this is indeed an authentic Keris Buda. Is this keris now yours or are you looking to obtain it. Perhaps instead of pushing for members here to explain why they believe it is not authentic you could point out the aspects of this blade that seem to have you convinced that it is authentic.
Of course, much better photographs with extreme close-ups would probably aid in such a discussion.

"I would not swallow everything what Alan said unless he represents the Indonesian majority."
I'm not at all sure what this is supposed to mean. In a world that is as subjective as the keris world is, what exactly is an "Indonesian majority" and why does it matter in this instance? Are you suggesting a coalition of keris experts from across the entire archipelago (representatives from Malaysian as well of course) would come to some majority of agreement on anything to do with keris. Or are you speaking of a majority of the Indonesians represented only on this board? Or perhaps we could poll the entire populous of Indonesia on this keris buda and see what they all think.

[GIO]

Just a short comment.
Have you noted that all keris claimed to be old (XVII cent.- or even before!) offered over the web are without any sign of rust ?
This is very interesting, considering that even recently-made keris have sometimes small signs of rust

[David]

Originally Posted by GIO

Just a short comment.
Have you noted that all keris claimed to be old (XVII cent.- or even before!) offered over the web are without any sign of rust ?
This is very interesting, considering that even recently-made keris have sometimes small signs of rust

I don't know GIO, i have keris that are 17th century and much earlier that have no obvious signs of rust. It's all about the maintenance.