Keris Betok on Ebay

mykeris · 12th September 2010, 03:38 PM

just checking, is the genuine one heavy or lighter? tq

A. G. Maisey · 12th September 2010, 10:58 PM

I will very seldom commit myself on the basis of a photo viewed on a computer screen, however I am prepared to commit myself here.

This keris is most definitely not an old keris.

mykeris · 13th September 2010, 01:30 AM

Noted and thanks Alan, excellent opinion. Mykeris.

PenangsangII · 13th September 2010, 02:58 AM

I am wondering about it too.... is the genuine old ones lighter or heavier.... I've seen very light weight and thin bladed jalak buda but it was found in South Sulawesi (dressed Javanese). It seemed quite old probably more than 300 yrs old. But still I am quite skeptical whether it was a genuine blade or not. Please enlighten.

A. G. Maisey · 13th September 2010, 03:18 AM

There's a lot more to it than just being light or heavy, Penangsang.

I've focussed on archaic blades for many years, and have a fairly good collection of them, however, I will not post photos of my personal keris, so I'm sorry, but I cannot give examples.

With this particular one I know through personal experience exactly what I am looking at, and this is because of a combination of factors, factors that I am not prepared to expand upon here.

Still, it is only an opinion, and everybody is entitled to their own.

PenangsangII · 13th September 2010, 03:54 AM

Many thanks Alan.

There are many betok and jalak buda (even Sombro) keris currently in the market including on line. Some web sites even guarantee such kerises as genuinely of Kadiri, Jenggala or Singhasari tangguh.

Like David's term "Eprey", I am very cautious when buying on-line.

A. G. Maisey · 13th September 2010, 04:53 AM

Well, all this current fixation with tangguh is understandable. When its all said and done, its opinion, and anybody can have an opinion.

But there is a difference between an informed opinion and an uninformed opinion.

There is also a difference between truth and deliberate misrepresentation.

How we buy is always a balance of how much we know personally, and how much we can trust the people we buy from. Probably some things from unknown sellers on Ebay are OK, but I've never been brave enough to take the gamble. What happens if I make a mistake? Then I'm stuck with something I don't want and cannot sell ---if I sell it and it becomes associated with me I lose a lot more than just a few $$$.

I did buy a keris off Ebay once, but it was one I had sold some years before. I knew it.

Regular dealers who sell from a site should be trustworthy, but regrettably not all are. Maybe their honesty depends upon whether you're a recognised friend of the dealer, or just another dumb beginner who isn't yet out of kindergarten.

With tangguh, I feel that if somebody quotes a tangguh in a sales speil it would be quite legitimate for a prospective buyer to ask the seller exactly what the specific indicators are that have allowed him to form the opinion that the item is, for instance, Majapahit. As I said, there is opinion and informed opinion. An informed opinion should be able to be supported.

David · 13th September 2010, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Like David's term "Eprey", I am very cautious when buying on-line.

The term i used Penangsang, was ePray, and i would never claim that one as my own. Your term, ePrey, implies something completely different, yet just as true about eBay. I think i like your term better.

12th September 2010, 03:38 PM	#1
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	just checking, is the genuine one heavy or lighter? tq

12th September 2010, 10:58 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	I will very seldom commit myself on the basis of a photo viewed on a computer screen, however I am prepared to commit myself here. This keris is most definitely not an old keris.

13th September 2010, 01:30 AM	#3
mykeris Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 278	Noted and thanks Alan, excellent opinion. Mykeris.

13th September 2010, 02:58 AM	#4
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	I am wondering about it too.... is the genuine old ones lighter or heavier.... I've seen very light weight and thin bladed jalak buda but it was found in South Sulawesi (dressed Javanese). It seemed quite old probably more than 300 yrs old. But still I am quite skeptical whether it was a genuine blade or not. Please enlighten.

13th September 2010, 03:18 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	There's a lot more to it than just being light or heavy, Penangsang. I've focussed on archaic blades for many years, and have a fairly good collection of them, however, I will not post photos of my personal keris, so I'm sorry, but I cannot give examples. With this particular one I know through personal experience exactly what I am looking at, and this is because of a combination of factors, factors that I am not prepared to expand upon here. Still, it is only an opinion, and everybody is entitled to their own.

13th September 2010, 03:54 AM	#6
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Many thanks Alan. There are many betok and jalak buda (even Sombro) keris currently in the market including on line. Some web sites even guarantee such kerises as genuinely of Kadiri, Jenggala or Singhasari tangguh. Like David's term "Eprey", I am very cautious when buying on-line.

13th September 2010, 04:53 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Well, all this current fixation with tangguh is understandable. When its all said and done, its opinion, and anybody can have an opinion. But there is a difference between an informed opinion and an uninformed opinion. There is also a difference between truth and deliberate misrepresentation. How we buy is always a balance of how much we know personally, and how much we can trust the people we buy from. Probably some things from unknown sellers on Ebay are OK, but I've never been brave enough to take the gamble. What happens if I make a mistake? Then I'm stuck with something I don't want and cannot sell ---if I sell it and it becomes associated with me I lose a lot more than just a few $$$. I did buy a keris off Ebay once, but it was one I had sold some years before. I knew it. Regular dealers who sell from a site should be trustworthy, but regrettably not all are. Maybe their honesty depends upon whether you're a recognised friend of the dealer, or just another dumb beginner who isn't yet out of kindergarten. With tangguh, I feel that if somebody quotes a tangguh in a sales speil it would be quite legitimate for a prospective buyer to ask the seller exactly what the specific indicators are that have allowed him to form the opinion that the item is, for instance, Majapahit. As I said, there is opinion and informed opinion. An informed opinion should be able to be supported.