Sword for identification

GIO · 7th September 2010, 12:10 PM

Many thanks for the answers.
I post some better pics which could help.
The condition of the scabbard is due to a restoration, as the black paint was missing in big areas.

Marc · 7th September 2010, 03:44 PM

Thank you for the additonial pictures, Gio.
Just a couple of questions... is the end of the tang threaded, or is my eyes playing tricks on me again? Also, is a mark what I see at the beginning of the tang? Could it be possible to have a close-up?

In any event, a nice blade in an unusually excellent condition.

fernando · 7th September 2010, 06:14 PM

Hi Gio,
... following Marc's impressions.
Blade indeed looking too young, for the period it appears to represent

.
Do we discern some letters, among the other symbols on the blade, as being some initials for IN TOLEDO ?
Isn't the maker mark (?) on the tang a bit too close from the blade base?
... just wondering

Dmitry · 7th September 2010, 06:30 PM

Imho, the blade is 1600s-1700s. The shiny appearance is a result of overzealous cleaning with sandpaper or another invasive method, in the not so distant past.
Museums of the world are full of clean shiny blades. I don't hold the crappy state of the blade, or vice versa, a mirror-bright shine as a sign of age, or lack thereof.

fernando · 7th September 2010, 06:54 PM

I am far from considering your impressions as not being correct, Dmitry, but i wasn't necessarily judging this blade youth by being overcleaned ... on the contrary.
It's the depth of the symbols and specially the anchor that i find rather considerable; specially if the blade, as you suggest, has been 'thinned' by the sandpapering or polishing endurance, such depth being reduced.

GIO · 8th September 2010, 03:56 PM

Hi Marc and Fernando,
Thanks a lot for your kind answers.
Yes, the end of the tang is threaded and what appears at the beginning of the tang is a mark (see first pic).
On the blade appear a few letters and what appear decorative carvings.
The letters seem to be : E N T O L on one side and N X T O L on the other.
Another older sword of mine (see second pic) has a similar inscription : N T O L

Marc · 9th September 2010, 12:17 PM

Just to be completely honest, I haven't discarded a more or less modern replica (pretty well done, that's true), I just lack enough data, at the moment, to say much more than what it has been already said. Here's where things like a traceable provenance kick in to help, for example, and what turns every case in a particular world by itself.
Oh, well, that's what keeps things interesting, too...

7th September 2010, 12:10 PM	#1
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 329	Many thanks for the answers. I post some better pics which could help. The condition of the scabbard is due to a restoration, as the black paint was missing in big areas. Attached Images

8th September 2010, 03:56 PM	#6
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 329	Hi Marc and Fernando, Thanks a lot for your kind answers. Yes, the end of the tang is threaded and what appears at the beginning of the tang is a mark (see first pic). On the blade appear a few letters and what appear decorative carvings. The letters seem to be : E N T O L on one side and N X T O L on the other. Another older sword of mine (see second pic) has a similar inscription : N T O L Attached Images

7th September 2010, 03:44 PM	#2
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Thank you for the additonial pictures, Gio. Just a couple of questions... is the end of the tang threaded, or is my eyes playing tricks on me again? Also, is a mark what I see at the beginning of the tang? Could it be possible to have a close-up? In any event, a nice blade in an unusually excellent condition.

7th September 2010, 06:14 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Gio, ... following Marc's impressions. Blade indeed looking too young, for the period it appears to represent . Do we discern some letters, among the other symbols on the blade, as being some initials for IN TOLEDO ? Isn't the maker mark (?) on the tang a bit too close from the blade base? ... just wondering

7th September 2010, 06:30 PM	#4
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Imho, the blade is 1600s-1700s. The shiny appearance is a result of overzealous cleaning with sandpaper or another invasive method, in the not so distant past. Museums of the world are full of clean shiny blades. I don't hold the crappy state of the blade, or vice versa, a mirror-bright shine as a sign of age, or lack thereof.

7th September 2010, 06:54 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	I am far from considering your impressions as not being correct, Dmitry, but i wasn't necessarily judging this blade youth by being overcleaned ... on the contrary. It's the depth of the symbols and specially the anchor that i find rather considerable; specially if the blade, as you suggest, has been 'thinned' by the sandpapering or polishing endurance, such depth being reduced.

9th September 2010, 12:17 PM	#7
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	Just to be completely honest, I haven't discarded a more or less modern replica (pretty well done, that's true), I just lack enough data, at the moment, to say much more than what it has been already said. Here's where things like a traceable provenance kick in to help, for example, and what turns every case in a particular world by itself. Oh, well, that's what keeps things interesting, too...