Kangaroo Tooth Lacerator

VANDOO · 31st August 2010, 08:44 PM

DUGONG 8 TO 10 FEET LONG LARGEST CAUGHT 13.2 FEET LONG. SKULL 16 IN. LONG X 9IN. WIDE X 9.5 IN. HIGH. IT IS SAID TO BE THE SMALLEST OF THE SIRENIANS THE MANATEE IS LARGER BUT LACKS TUSKS.

HIPPO OVER TWO TONS. THIS SKULL MEASURES 30IN. LONG X 20 IN WIDE X 20 IN HIGH. SOME ARE NO DOUBT LARGER.

THE TOOTH SHOWN APPEARS TO BE 12INCHES LONG THE LONGEST MEASUREMENT OF AN ADULT MALE DUGONG SKULL IS 16 IN. I PERSONALLY WOULD GO WITH HIPPO.

THE DUGONG IS RELATED TO THE ELEPHANT AND IT IS EASY TO SEE A SIMULARITY IN THE SKULL. PIC. OF ELEPHANT SKULL WITH TUSKS AND PICTURE OF FOSSIL DWARF MAMMOTH SKULL, THE ORIGIN OF THE CYCLOPS LEGENDS.

Ron Anderson · 1st September 2010, 01:15 AM

Hi Tim

It is possible this knife may also have been used for scarification, however I don't think this was a primary function at all. It was a fighting knife. Aborigines had other tools specifically for the purpose of scarification etc. These were mainly stone blades. I've included a photo of one here (see below) - another item in my growing collection of aboriginal artefacts. It's called a leira blade. It would have been used for scarification, sub-incision and other surgical tasks. And of course also as a spear head.

Regarding your tooth: I recently had the good fortune to attend an auction with a lot of marine ivory, including entire walrus tusks. In fact, I purchased some Innuit tools made from walrus ivory, including an ivory eskimo harpoon blade. There is something about your tooth that suggests marine ivory. I think it might be the smoothness of the surface - perhaps this is owing to the erosive nature of water on a tooth. I would put my money on the fact that this came from a sea mammal like a dugong. Of course, hippos also spend a lot of time in water, so I may be wrong.

Ron Anderson · 1st September 2010, 05:40 AM

Hi Tim

I appreciate your comment on the fact that those knives look like Pukko knives.

It's simply amazing how the same basic designs inform cultures from opposite ends of the world and the technological spectrum. Especially when it comes to tools and weapons.

In fact, that would make a very good discussion thread.

Can you think of two cultures further apart? I can't.

Tim Simmons · 1st September 2010, 06:37 AM

I am sure the tusk is Hippo, I have one of the curved tusks also.

Ron this has been an engaging thread. How long is the knife you show? does it still have an edge? I suppose a skilled knapper and user of such knives would have no problem redressing the blade when needed. The pukko style knife like blades look to me as the work of the most skilled nature. I really like the hollow ground apperance. As you say amazing, Finland and Aus. Just got to find one. Admiralty Island knives are common, not the good old ones, I will post stuff about the cottage industy production of knives from the Admiralty Island latter after work.

Jason Anstey · 1st September 2010, 07:06 AM

I am guessing that the teeth are crocodile. I can think of any other Australian beast that has teeth like this. Small salty or a freshy I think?

Ron Anderson · 1st September 2010, 07:26 AM

Hi Tim

The stone knife is 17cm. That's a lot longer than they usually. They're usually very short, as you can see from the references you sent.

It's the biggest one I've actually seen, but then I haven't seen that many.

Both edges are actually serrated - there are notches in the stone, saw-like. Still fairly sharp.

Hi Jason

Crocodile teeth are much bigger than this. I believe these are actually shark's teeth. The more I look at them the more I think this is from Queensland and these are shark's teeth. These haven't been sharpened by anything other than evolution. There are little serration marks that are too fine and symmetrical to have been ground.

So let me amend my description - this is a Shark Tooth Lacerator. While shark tooth weapons are used elsewhere in Oceania, they are very scarce here in Australia. This is a rare item in these parts. And by their nature these teeth are more vicious than kangaroo teeth, even sharpened ones.

inveterate · 1st September 2010, 08:46 AM

Ron..Any chance they could be Dingo teeth? Rod

31st August 2010, 08:44 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	DUGONG 8 TO 10 FEET LONG LARGEST CAUGHT 13.2 FEET LONG. SKULL 16 IN. LONG X 9IN. WIDE X 9.5 IN. HIGH. IT IS SAID TO BE THE SMALLEST OF THE SIRENIANS THE MANATEE IS LARGER BUT LACKS TUSKS. HIPPO OVER TWO TONS. THIS SKULL MEASURES 30IN. LONG X 20 IN WIDE X 20 IN HIGH. SOME ARE NO DOUBT LARGER. THE TOOTH SHOWN APPEARS TO BE 12INCHES LONG THE LONGEST MEASUREMENT OF AN ADULT MALE DUGONG SKULL IS 16 IN. I PERSONALLY WOULD GO WITH HIPPO. THE DUGONG IS RELATED TO THE ELEPHANT AND IT IS EASY TO SEE A SIMULARITY IN THE SKULL. PIC. OF ELEPHANT SKULL WITH TUSKS AND PICTURE OF FOSSIL DWARF MAMMOTH SKULL, THE ORIGIN OF THE CYCLOPS LEGENDS. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 1st September 2010 at 03:40 AM.

1st September 2010, 01:15 AM	#2
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Tim It is possible this knife may also have been used for scarification, however I don't think this was a primary function at all. It was a fighting knife. Aborigines had other tools specifically for the purpose of scarification etc. These were mainly stone blades. I've included a photo of one here (see below) - another item in my growing collection of aboriginal artefacts. It's called a leira blade. It would have been used for scarification, sub-incision and other surgical tasks. And of course also as a spear head. Regarding your tooth: I recently had the good fortune to attend an auction with a lot of marine ivory, including entire walrus tusks. In fact, I purchased some Innuit tools made from walrus ivory, including an ivory eskimo harpoon blade. There is something about your tooth that suggests marine ivory. I think it might be the smoothness of the surface - perhaps this is owing to the erosive nature of water on a tooth. I would put my money on the fact that this came from a sea mammal like a dugong. Of course, hippos also spend a lot of time in water, so I may be wrong. Attached Images

1st September 2010, 05:40 AM	#3
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Tim I appreciate your comment on the fact that those knives look like Pukko knives. It's simply amazing how the same basic designs inform cultures from opposite ends of the world and the technological spectrum. Especially when it comes to tools and weapons. In fact, that would make a very good discussion thread. Can you think of two cultures further apart? I can't.

1st September 2010, 06:37 AM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	I am sure the tusk is Hippo, I have one of the curved tusks also. Ron this has been an engaging thread. How long is the knife you show? does it still have an edge? I suppose a skilled knapper and user of such knives would have no problem redressing the blade when needed. The pukko style knife like blades look to me as the work of the most skilled nature. I really like the hollow ground apperance. As you say amazing, Finland and Aus. Just got to find one. Admiralty Island knives are common, not the good old ones, I will post stuff about the cottage industy production of knives from the Admiralty Island latter after work.

1st September 2010, 07:06 AM	#5
Jason Anstey Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 102	I am guessing that the teeth are crocodile. I can think of any other Australian beast that has teeth like this. Small salty or a freshy I think?

1st September 2010, 07:26 AM	#6
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Tim The stone knife is 17cm. That's a lot longer than they usually. They're usually very short, as you can see from the references you sent. It's the biggest one I've actually seen, but then I haven't seen that many. Both edges are actually serrated - there are notches in the stone, saw-like. Still fairly sharp. Hi Jason Crocodile teeth are much bigger than this. I believe these are actually shark's teeth. The more I look at them the more I think this is from Queensland and these are shark's teeth. These haven't been sharpened by anything other than evolution. There are little serration marks that are too fine and symmetrical to have been ground. So let me amend my description - this is a Shark Tooth Lacerator. While shark tooth weapons are used elsewhere in Oceania, they are very scarce here in Australia. This is a rare item in these parts. And by their nature these teeth are more vicious than kangaroo teeth, even sharpened ones.

1st September 2010, 08:46 AM	#7
inveterate Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 58	Ron..Any chance they could be Dingo teeth? Rod