Help with Identification please

A. G. Maisey · 31st August 2010, 01:34 PM

You cannot properly clean a blade unless you remove the hilt.

That is the first thing you must do.

Its a very easy thing to do, you just heat the sorsoran gently and let the heat build up while you work the hilt backwards and forth to free it. The technique has been mentioned in this Forum a number of times.A candle or small kerosene lamp is probably the best thing to use for this.

It is easy. It is essential.

If you do not want to do this, you had best forget about pineapple juice and soaking. You can do a partial clean by repeatedly brushing with lime juice or lemon juice. It does not do anything like a decent job, but at least it is better that the high probability of damage to hilt or mendak by trying to clean using the soak method, with the hilt attached.

imas560 · 31st August 2010, 11:08 PM

I read in a couple of posts about heating with a blowtorch but I'll give the candle a go. Also spotted a couple of posts dealing with a hilt that had been glued but I hope it won't come to that.

I am planning on the following process:
1. remove hilt
2. degrease
3. soak in juice
then daily (well as close to daily as possible)
4. scrub with toothbrush
5. re-soak
repeat till blade cleaned
6. lime juice and arsenic (optional depending on obtaining arsenic)
7. oil
8. re-hilt

What is a good indicator that a blade has been sufficiently cleaned to treat with lime and arsenic?
How frequently to change out the juice?
Also posts mention keris oil, where can this be sourced? and what is it's closest readily available equivalent?
Many thanks

Rick · 31st August 2010, 11:47 PM

Light Mineral Oil is what it's called in the US .
Can be scented with a bit cendana (sandlewood) oil .

Pure Sandalwood is nigh impossible to get these days and is very expensive .

A. G. Maisey · 1st September 2010, 01:42 AM

Yes, I have mentioned a couple of times that I use a gas torch, but I have never recommended this for use, because if you're new at this game, it is too difficult to control. A candle or a small kero lamp is never ever going to damage the blade through too much heat.Others may also have mentioned a torch, but maybe they have the experience to gauge the correct amount of heat. Its not a good tool for somebody without experience to use.

Apart from the daily scrubbing with a toothbrush you also need to pick any little bits of hard rust off with a sharp metal tool. A saddler's awl is good, so is an old three sided file ground to a point.

Depending on how rusty the blade is you can also scrub with steel wool and sink cleaner during the cleaning period.

When you consider the blade to be clean, you need to scrub with steel wool and sink cleaner to get it white, before you begin to stain it. If you cannot get arsenic, and you're satisfied with the result out of the pineapple juice, then obviously you don't whiten the blade.If you decide to leave the blade as is out of the juice, you need to ensure that you get every last trace of juice off that blade, dry it immediately and then dry with a hair dryer.Spray with WD40 and allow to stand over night.

You'll easily see when its clean, because there will be no rust left on it. None at all.

You don't need to change the juice. In hot weather it will grow a fungus on top, which stinks and is unsightly, but this can just be lifted off and thrown away. In cool weather it will stay clear of fungus.

As Rick has said, sandalwood oil is not easy to get and is expensive. Sandalwood is the smell of the traditional oil. In Jawa this is added to a coconut oil base. In fact, other oils are also used, and the coconut oil used in Jawa is not necessarily ideal as a base. The best protection will be afforded by a good gun oil. Light machine oil is also OK. If you can find an alternate lifestyle shop/ hippy shop or even a health food store, you'll find that they probably sell essential oils. You may find sandalwood there, or some other acceptable oil such as jasmin or rose, you can mix one of these essential oils with medicinal parrafin, and that will give you an acceptable keris oil.Essential oils are used in aroma therapy, and in Australia you can find an acceptable oil almost anywhere, even in small country towns.You don't need much of the essential oil to give the parrafin a decent smell.

I always wrap a freshly cleaned,stained, oiled blade in plastic. This will give protection against deterioration for a very long time.

BigG · 1st September 2010, 06:20 AM

I used Wahl brand light machine oil. It is odourless and colourless. It is a brand generally associated with hair clippers. To this, I would blend in my own mix of floral scent... i guess this is easier found here in my back of the woods... but essential oils use in aromatherapy.. like Mr Maisey has said, workswell too.

You may consider using a mix of something sweet and floral like jasmine, rose etc and cut it wth a bit of something citrusy.. This is to prevent the overpowering presence of the floral note.

Once you mix these oils they should generally dissolve together... if not just leave it to collect at the base of the container as it will still transmit is fragrance to the rest of the oil. use only the top clear portion when oiling your keris.. hope this wld help...

rgds

PenangsangII · 3rd September 2010, 04:34 AM

to play it safe, in order to remove the hilt that is attached to the pesi using damar/jabung etc, just soak the entire hilt in boiled water.... in less than 3 minutes, normally the hilt can easily be removed.

And to clean the blade safely, just soak it in water (best is pure water coming down from waterfall or spring water...) mix with fresh pineapple cubes (pineapple skin is better) and mengkudu (Morinda Citrifolia). This is traditional method practised by Javanese living in Malaysia.

A. G. Maisey · 3rd September 2010, 04:59 AM

That's playing it safe?

Interesting approach.

David · 3rd September 2010, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

to play it safe, in order to remove the hilt that is attached to the pesi using damar/jabung etc, just soak the entire hilt in boiled water.... in less than 3 minutes, normally the hilt can easily be removed.

Wow...that seems really excessive to me. It is pretty sure to do damage to the finish of the hilt i would think. Sure the blade is the most important element, but i see no reason to endanger a nice hilt in this manner. The heat required to loosen a blade is not nearly as dangerous to the blade.

31st August 2010, 01:34 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,059	You cannot properly clean a blade unless you remove the hilt. That is the first thing you must do. Its a very easy thing to do, you just heat the sorsoran gently and let the heat build up while you work the hilt backwards and forth to free it. The technique has been mentioned in this Forum a number of times.A candle or small kerosene lamp is probably the best thing to use for this. It is easy. It is essential. If you do not want to do this, you had best forget about pineapple juice and soaking. You can do a partial clean by repeatedly brushing with lime juice or lemon juice. It does not do anything like a decent job, but at least it is better that the high probability of damage to hilt or mendak by trying to clean using the soak method, with the hilt attached.

31st August 2010, 11:08 PM	#2
imas560 Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 180	I read in a couple of posts about heating with a blowtorch but I'll give the candle a go. Also spotted a couple of posts dealing with a hilt that had been glued but I hope it won't come to that. I am planning on the following process: 1. remove hilt 2. degrease 3. soak in juice then daily (well as close to daily as possible) 4. scrub with toothbrush 5. re-soak repeat till blade cleaned 6. lime juice and arsenic (optional depending on obtaining arsenic) 7. oil 8. re-hilt What is a good indicator that a blade has been sufficiently cleaned to treat with lime and arsenic? How frequently to change out the juice? Also posts mention keris oil, where can this be sourced? and what is it's closest readily available equivalent? Many thanks

31st August 2010, 11:47 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Light Mineral Oil is what it's called in the US . Can be scented with a bit cendana (sandlewood) oil . Pure Sandalwood is nigh impossible to get these days and is very expensive .

1st September 2010, 01:42 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,059	Yes, I have mentioned a couple of times that I use a gas torch, but I have never recommended this for use, because if you're new at this game, it is too difficult to control. A candle or a small kero lamp is never ever going to damage the blade through too much heat.Others may also have mentioned a torch, but maybe they have the experience to gauge the correct amount of heat. Its not a good tool for somebody without experience to use. Apart from the daily scrubbing with a toothbrush you also need to pick any little bits of hard rust off with a sharp metal tool. A saddler's awl is good, so is an old three sided file ground to a point. Depending on how rusty the blade is you can also scrub with steel wool and sink cleaner during the cleaning period. When you consider the blade to be clean, you need to scrub with steel wool and sink cleaner to get it white, before you begin to stain it. If you cannot get arsenic, and you're satisfied with the result out of the pineapple juice, then obviously you don't whiten the blade.If you decide to leave the blade as is out of the juice, you need to ensure that you get every last trace of juice off that blade, dry it immediately and then dry with a hair dryer.Spray with WD40 and allow to stand over night. You'll easily see when its clean, because there will be no rust left on it. None at all. You don't need to change the juice. In hot weather it will grow a fungus on top, which stinks and is unsightly, but this can just be lifted off and thrown away. In cool weather it will stay clear of fungus. As Rick has said, sandalwood oil is not easy to get and is expensive. Sandalwood is the smell of the traditional oil. In Jawa this is added to a coconut oil base. In fact, other oils are also used, and the coconut oil used in Jawa is not necessarily ideal as a base. The best protection will be afforded by a good gun oil. Light machine oil is also OK. If you can find an alternate lifestyle shop/ hippy shop or even a health food store, you'll find that they probably sell essential oils. You may find sandalwood there, or some other acceptable oil such as jasmin or rose, you can mix one of these essential oils with medicinal parrafin, and that will give you an acceptable keris oil.Essential oils are used in aroma therapy, and in Australia you can find an acceptable oil almost anywhere, even in small country towns.You don't need much of the essential oil to give the parrafin a decent smell. I always wrap a freshly cleaned,stained, oiled blade in plastic. This will give protection against deterioration for a very long time.

1st September 2010, 06:20 AM	#5
BigG Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Singapore Posts: 75	I used Wahl brand light machine oil. It is odourless and colourless. It is a brand generally associated with hair clippers. To this, I would blend in my own mix of floral scent... i guess this is easier found here in my back of the woods... but essential oils use in aromatherapy.. like Mr Maisey has said, workswell too. You may consider using a mix of something sweet and floral like jasmine, rose etc and cut it wth a bit of something citrusy.. This is to prevent the overpowering presence of the floral note. Once you mix these oils they should generally dissolve together... if not just leave it to collect at the base of the container as it will still transmit is fragrance to the rest of the oil. use only the top clear portion when oiling your keris.. hope this wld help... rgds

3rd September 2010, 04:34 AM	#6
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	to play it safe, in order to remove the hilt that is attached to the pesi using damar/jabung etc, just soak the entire hilt in boiled water.... in less than 3 minutes, normally the hilt can easily be removed. And to clean the blade safely, just soak it in water (best is pure water coming down from waterfall or spring water...) mix with fresh pineapple cubes (pineapple skin is better) and mengkudu (Morinda Citrifolia). This is traditional method practised by Javanese living in Malaysia.

3rd September 2010, 04:59 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,059	That's playing it safe? Interesting approach.