Ever heard of a cannononball .. ovoid?

M ELEY · 27th August 2010, 10:24 AM

Well...that shoots that theory down.

I assumed that some of the info I had read was correct that cannon balls were made in this way (included in the tour guide's speal about a local tower I have visited). If the issue is height, some of these structures were massively tall while others weren't. In any case, back to possible hot shot, I guess.

Here's what wikipedia had to say and a list of shot towers around the world, many of them dating to the 1780's-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_tower

kronckew · 27th August 2010, 10:41 AM

another interesting ref. site:

Solid shot essentials

i noted in there that grapeshot was frequently cast in gangs, ie. like pearls on a string, rather than individually, thus no sprue, and ordinance regs required them to be tumble finished which would have reduced or removed any mould marks and obscured the end details where the individual balls had been broken apart. the oval grape could easily have been produced this way. as it notes, grape did not come into contact with the bore and so could be quite irregular, where odd shaped round shot could scrape or lodge in the bore, damaging it. grapeshot was required to be made from cast iron, tho lead was an accepted alternate. canister, which later replaced grape, used lead musket balls.

fearn · 27th August 2010, 06:15 PM

Darn, Kronck beat me to the point about the shot tower. I'd also point out that a heated cannon ball, if it was hot enough to deform that much, also wouldn't have an elongated oval shape. It would get flattened by the power of the explosion behind it. More to the point, if it was soft enough to deform that much, it would probably weld itself to the inside of the gun and cause the gun to explode when fired.

I keep looking at the dented surface of the thing. I suppose that could be corrosion that was cleaned off, but I keep thinking that some poor blacksmith got the job of trying to hammer a sub-par cannonball (or a too-big cannonball) into a diameter narrow enough for them to use it with the gun they had. It could also have been a really ugly cannonball that was discarded as too crappy/dangerous to fire.

After all, we've been assuming that it was fired, and I don't see that anyone has presented evidence to support this idea.

Best,

F

fernando · 28th August 2010, 08:35 PM

Fascinating thread!
How would i guess that the posting of my atypical ball would result in such a treatise on cannonballs.
Hot shot and shot towers would certainly never dream of making part of my vocabulary!
I finally located some data on the use of hot shot in old Portuguese (and Brazilian) coast forts. It was a question of having not browsed with the right term; here they call it bala ardente (burning bullet).
Considering Fearn's reasonable suggestion that this ball was not even fired, having been discarded due to its faulty construction, one question arises: why then wasn't it discarded right after casting inspection, instead of going to take a risky chance to be used in campaign?

fearn · 28th August 2010, 09:52 PM

I was thinking of a field modification: what do you do when the cannonball is too big for your cannon, and you really need to fire that projectile? "You men, take these hammers and chisels....followed hours later by colorful invectives and a "that didn't work!" Then you leave your failure on the battlefield, to mess with the minds of those who come after you.

Anyway, I was reading a little about hot shot, and the one thing I'm pretty sure about is that they weren't heating the balls enough to deform them. It's hard to do that without a formed air draft and a much hotter fire than they describe.

Best,

F

fernando · 29th August 2010, 10:45 PM

You will forgive me Fearn but, resizing cannonballs on the battlefield, sounds pretty fictional to me, even assuming the artillery officer had flour in his head, instead of brains.
Even if the issue were to adjust only one ball, which seems rather insolit, it would have to be a sculptor's work, to reshape the thing with the necessary profile ... not a task for rank and file .
More plausibly i would accept this is not an actual cannonball.

fearn · 29th August 2010, 11:00 PM

Could be, Fernando.

You know how this is going to end, right? Someone's going to have to make a modern cannonball of that particular shape and fire it, just to see if it will fly.

Volunteers?

27th August 2010, 10:41 AM	#2
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,259	another interesting ref. site: Solid shot essentials i noted in there that grapeshot was frequently cast in gangs, ie. like pearls on a string, rather than individually, thus no sprue, and ordinance regs required them to be tumble finished which would have reduced or removed any mould marks and obscured the end details where the individual balls had been broken apart. the oval grape could easily have been produced this way. as it notes, grape did not come into contact with the bore and so could be quite irregular, where odd shaped round shot could scrape or lodge in the bore, damaging it. grapeshot was required to be made from cast iron, tho lead was an accepted alternate. canister, which later replaced grape, used lead musket balls. Last edited by kronckew; 27th August 2010 at 12:00 PM.

27th August 2010, 10:24 AM	#1
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,207	Well...that shoots that theory down. I assumed that some of the info I had read was correct that cannon balls were made in this way (included in the tour guide's speal about a local tower I have visited). If the issue is height, some of these structures were massively tall while others weren't. In any case, back to possible hot shot, I guess. Here's what wikipedia had to say and a list of shot towers around the world, many of them dating to the 1780's- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shot_tower

27th August 2010, 06:15 PM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Darn, Kronck beat me to the point about the shot tower. I'd also point out that a heated cannon ball, if it was hot enough to deform that much, also wouldn't have an elongated oval shape. It would get flattened by the power of the explosion behind it. More to the point, if it was soft enough to deform that much, it would probably weld itself to the inside of the gun and cause the gun to explode when fired. I keep looking at the dented surface of the thing. I suppose that could be corrosion that was cleaned off, but I keep thinking that some poor blacksmith got the job of trying to hammer a sub-par cannonball (or a too-big cannonball) into a diameter narrow enough for them to use it with the gun they had. It could also have been a really ugly cannonball that was discarded as too crappy/dangerous to fire. After all, we've been assuming that it was fired, and I don't see that anyone has presented evidence to support this idea. Best, F

28th August 2010, 08:35 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Fascinating thread! How would i guess that the posting of my atypical ball would result in such a treatise on cannonballs. Hot shot and shot towers would certainly never dream of making part of my vocabulary! I finally located some data on the use of hot shot in old Portuguese (and Brazilian) coast forts. It was a question of having not browsed with the right term; here they call it bala ardente (burning bullet). Considering Fearn's reasonable suggestion that this ball was not even fired, having been discarded due to its faulty construction, one question arises: why then wasn't it discarded right after casting inspection, instead of going to take a risky chance to be used in campaign?

28th August 2010, 09:52 PM	#5
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	I was thinking of a field modification: what do you do when the cannonball is too big for your cannon, and you really need to fire that projectile? "You men, take these hammers and chisels....followed hours later by colorful invectives and a "that didn't work!" Then you leave your failure on the battlefield, to mess with the minds of those who come after you. Anyway, I was reading a little about hot shot, and the one thing I'm pretty sure about is that they weren't heating the balls enough to deform them. It's hard to do that without a formed air draft and a much hotter fire than they describe. Best, F

29th August 2010, 10:45 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	You will forgive me Fearn but, resizing cannonballs on the battlefield, sounds pretty fictional to me, even assuming the artillery officer had flour in his head, instead of brains. Even if the issue were to adjust only one ball, which seems rather insolit, it would have to be a sculptor's work, to reshape the thing with the necessary profile ... not a task for rank and file . More plausibly i would accept this is not an actual cannonball.

29th August 2010, 11:00 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Could be, Fernando. You know how this is going to end, right? Someone's going to have to make a modern cannonball of that particular shape and fire it, just to see if it will fly. Volunteers?