Next keris from Polish Museum

BluErf · 12th June 2005, 10:09 AM

We hear that the simplest things are often the most difficult to carve well because there is nothing to hide the flaws with. Its like singing karaoke without the echo, instrumental accompaniment and backup vocals -- the singer has to be damn good in order not to fall flat.

Some of the seemingly easy-to-carve bits are actually terribly difficult to carve.

Just a couple of examples:

1. The bugis pistol-grip handle. The form looks easy enough, but it has to feel right when gripped in the hand. Javanese/Madurese knock-offs of Bugis handles looked essentially the same, but is stiffer and doesn't feel right. This is because there should be an almost imperceptible twist in the 'head' of the handle. The other thing is -- notice the lines on the handle, especially the 'u-turn' double-line on the top back of the hilt (2nd pic). This is carved free-hand and on a curving surface, and the carver has only one stroke to do each line of that 'u-turn'. 1 mm off, and the lines don't join with the other lines properly.

2. The 'locust neck' sheath stem bottom. Looks plain and simple, but it is really quite difficult to shape from a square block. The inverted 'v' curves must fit perfectly between the 2 blocks of wood. 0.5mm off for any of the 4 curves on the inverted 'v' on either side and it won't fit.

wolviex · 12th June 2005, 12:39 PM

Thank you all!

If we are discussing the Ukiran at the moment, I think that these two left hand fingers were made purposely. I can't tell at the moment if the wood is harder in that place, but I would rather think about it as designedly. Writing about carver error I wanted to provoke discussion, beliving that someone saw something similiar, and could tell us, if it is known gesture or meaning.

This is beautiful piece of work, no doubt. I believe that someone will be able to call this deity: Nechesh mentioned Durga, I would like to know something more about her. I know that deities are sometimes problematic to identify, but please go on

- any other ideas?

Thank you in advance

Boedhi Adhitya · 12th June 2005, 01:21 PM

Judging keris from it's picture is always very tricky for me, but that's the only way we could do here

It looks like javanese keris for me, the "nem-neman" perhaps. Nem-neman term attributed to all kerises which were made after the Giyanti Treaty, which divided the mataram kingdom in 1792, until early 20th century. 36cm long is'n't long enough for Bali kerises, but quite long for Java. Here in Java, we measure the blade by "kilan" or "jengkal" traditional unit, that is, the distance between the thumb's point and little finger while you spreading them (mine is 20cm). Average Java keris (and Bugis, perhaps Malay also) have around one and a half kilan long, while bali keris might well over 2 kilans.

"out-of-blade" greneng profile is called "ron dha nunut". Greneng term is only used specifically for those thorn-like shape on ganja's tail. Once it come to the blade, it is called "ron dha nunut" nunut= to follow, ron=daun=leaf, dha=the "W"torn-like shape, which actually resembles the "dha" character on Javanese alphabet. the greneng on the sekar kacang is called "jenggot" or beard. Mpu put/made the greneng, ron dha nunut or jenggot on the blade according to the dhapur/blade shape he wished to made. There were a rule, not just for it's beauty, especially in Java. There always a name and meaning for every ricikan/blade details and luk. But for now, just admire the beauty

It's true that the greneng shape might be the indicator for the age, but it's the "W" or dha which is used, not the "out-of-blade" or "within-the-blade" profile, at least here in Java, for what I've learnt. Some even believe that the greneng are actually the "hand-signature" of the empu.

I don't hold my opinions as to be the right ones. I just want to share what I've learnt, and to learnt much much more. Please do not feel offended

Anyway, good keris, Wolviex. Just wonder, how it could travel to Poland

The pamor is beras wutah, and the dhapur might be Carita Kanawa, 9 luk. I don't bring the dhapur book, just relying my memory, so I couldn't assure you, sorry

BluErf · 12th June 2005, 01:51 PM

Hi Boedhi, thanks for sharing. I think you may have misunderstood my use of "out-of-blade-profile" and "within-the-blade-profile". In both cases, there are ron dha nunut, its only whether it sticks out of the blade profile like in the Balinese, Malay and the primary Javanese keris in discussion here, or whether it is cut into the blade profile, like in the 2 Javanese keris examples I have posted. I must admit that this out-of-profile and within-profile point is merely my observation of the Javanese kerises I have seen in person and in books. The older pieces (16th-maybe 18th century) had out-of-profile greneng. The recent ones (19th-21st century) had greneng that does not protrude from the blade profile line.

12th June 2005, 10:09 AM	#1
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	We hear that the simplest things are often the most difficult to carve well because there is nothing to hide the flaws with. Its like singing karaoke without the echo, instrumental accompaniment and backup vocals -- the singer has to be damn good in order not to fall flat. Some of the seemingly easy-to-carve bits are actually terribly difficult to carve. Just a couple of examples: 1. The bugis pistol-grip handle. The form looks easy enough, but it has to feel right when gripped in the hand. Javanese/Madurese knock-offs of Bugis handles looked essentially the same, but is stiffer and doesn't feel right. This is because there should be an almost imperceptible twist in the 'head' of the handle. The other thing is -- notice the lines on the handle, especially the 'u-turn' double-line on the top back of the hilt (2nd pic). This is carved free-hand and on a curving surface, and the carver has only one stroke to do each line of that 'u-turn'. 1 mm off, and the lines don't join with the other lines properly. 2. The 'locust neck' sheath stem bottom. Looks plain and simple, but it is really quite difficult to shape from a square block. The inverted 'v' curves must fit perfectly between the 2 blocks of wood. 0.5mm off for any of the 4 curves on the inverted 'v' on either side and it won't fit. Attached Images

12th June 2005, 12:39 PM	#2
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Thank you all! If we are discussing the Ukiran at the moment, I think that these two left hand fingers were made purposely. I can't tell at the moment if the wood is harder in that place, but I would rather think about it as designedly. Writing about carver error I wanted to provoke discussion, beliving that someone saw something similiar, and could tell us, if it is known gesture or meaning. This is beautiful piece of work, no doubt. I believe that someone will be able to call this deity: Nechesh mentioned Durga, I would like to know something more about her. I know that deities are sometimes problematic to identify, but please go on - any other ideas? Thank you in advance

12th June 2005, 01:21 PM	#3
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Judging keris from it's picture is always very tricky for me, but that's the only way we could do here It looks like javanese keris for me, the "nem-neman" perhaps. Nem-neman term attributed to all kerises which were made after the Giyanti Treaty, which divided the mataram kingdom in 1792, until early 20th century. 36cm long is'n't long enough for Bali kerises, but quite long for Java. Here in Java, we measure the blade by "kilan" or "jengkal" traditional unit, that is, the distance between the thumb's point and little finger while you spreading them (mine is 20cm). Average Java keris (and Bugis, perhaps Malay also) have around one and a half kilan long, while bali keris might well over 2 kilans. "out-of-blade" greneng profile is called "ron dha nunut". Greneng term is only used specifically for those thorn-like shape on ganja's tail. Once it come to the blade, it is called "ron dha nunut" nunut= to follow, ron=daun=leaf, dha=the "W"torn-like shape, which actually resembles the "dha" character on Javanese alphabet. the greneng on the sekar kacang is called "jenggot" or beard. Mpu put/made the greneng, ron dha nunut or jenggot on the blade according to the dhapur/blade shape he wished to made. There were a rule, not just for it's beauty, especially in Java. There always a name and meaning for every ricikan/blade details and luk. But for now, just admire the beauty It's true that the greneng shape might be the indicator for the age, but it's the "W" or dha which is used, not the "out-of-blade" or "within-the-blade" profile, at least here in Java, for what I've learnt. Some even believe that the greneng are actually the "hand-signature" of the empu. I don't hold my opinions as to be the right ones. I just want to share what I've learnt, and to learnt much much more. Please do not feel offended Anyway, good keris, Wolviex. Just wonder, how it could travel to Poland The pamor is beras wutah, and the dhapur might be Carita Kanawa, 9 luk. I don't bring the dhapur book, just relying my memory, so I couldn't assure you, sorry

12th June 2005, 01:51 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Boedhi, thanks for sharing. I think you may have misunderstood my use of "out-of-blade-profile" and "within-the-blade-profile". In both cases, there are ron dha nunut, its only whether it sticks out of the blade profile like in the Balinese, Malay and the primary Javanese keris in discussion here, or whether it is cut into the blade profile, like in the 2 Javanese keris examples I have posted. I must admit that this out-of-profile and within-profile point is merely my observation of the Javanese kerises I have seen in person and in books. The older pieces (16th-maybe 18th century) had out-of-profile greneng. The recent ones (19th-21st century) had greneng that does not protrude from the blade profile line.