Could anybody help with Id of the sword ?

Jim McDougall · 1st August 2010, 08:49 PM

Mandara was of course situated in what is now Cameroon, and the kingdom of Kanem-Bornu extended into these regions, including parts of Niger, Nigeria and Chad, with these regions all Sultanates . Muslim scholarship prevailed through these areas, however in many cases there were concerns over the nominal observance of Islamic Faith, which led to thre Fulani jihad in the 19th century against Mandara.

The fact that the Bornu state was founded by Arabs, Berbers and Hausa in the 14th century and the continued Sultancys in all of these regions, coupled with the prevalent Arab trade and scholarship in my opinion suggest that there was indeed powerful Arab influence present throughout. Although it has never been suggested that the takouba originated as a sword form in West Africa, it is acknowledged that its presence extends widely through the Sahara, most typically associated with the Tuareg.
The influences from the East are noted in certain scholarly references in which many takouba blades are termed, masri, which means Egyptian, loosely translated from the east.

The trade routes I have mentioned many times have resulted in many instances of sometimes unusual hybrid weapons, and carried influences as well. There are cases of triple channeled kaskara type blades mounted in rondel hilt type swords in Sierra Leone and other West African regions. These did not originate there, but the blades clearly arrived from the east, either from points of entry in the northern littoral or from trade inbound from Chad or Sudanese regions.

Regarding the inlaid copper or brass plug, I have discovered an interesting reference in which Dr. Lloyd Cabot Briggs discusses this phenomenon in his work on Tuareg swords and daggers (p.80). Referring to a takouba with intermediate (south or central) attribution, and with a blade that he notes could be European, he states , "...this blade has been pierced about 3/16 of an inch above its rounded point and the resulting hole is filled by a copper plug 3/16" in average diameter on the obverse and 1/4" on the reverse".
He claims another example has a similar hole, unfilled, and that he has no idea what the pierced mutilations might be for.

The point is of course, that the practice did exist in Saharan regions in at least some degree. The fact that the instances here relate to Tuareg swords, and they of course only nominally accepted Islamic Faith, does suggest non Arabic source was possible for the copper insert....unless one considers the profound presence of Islamic Faith throughout all of these regions, which influenced Tuaregs as well as many other tribal entities who were more devout followers within these Sultanates.

Addendum:

Just found another reference which might be of interest, though a bit ancient for direct influence on these swords, still pertinant to a curious practice:

"...Frankish pattern welded blades taper to a rounded point. When treatment of the blade is completed some of the blades are marked in the upper part with half moons or crosses of bronze or gold, and sometimes a nail of gold is hammered into a hole in the blade".
H.R. Ellis-Davidson noting the al Kindi ref.

This information begs the question, just how old is the broadsword tradition in North Africa? and could these ancient practices have been brought into tribal regions during the early occupations there? It would appear that the Arab world did know of the Frankish practice.....since this reference was from al-Kindi.

Things to ponder.

Tim Simmons · 2nd August 2010, 07:54 PM

If we go back to the 1400s, the European arrival on the west coast could have introduced this form, if we are to think in this way. The Portugese in paticular. Perhaps there is an influence up from the Congo? Perhaps the form was adopted by the Arabs after defeat at the hands of Christian Spain? It could even be a native version before the Muslim city states? The picture Mandra and Shi, how far does this go?

Jim McDougall · 3rd August 2010, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

If we go back to the 1400s, the European arrival on the west coast could have introduced this form, if we are to think in this way. The Portugese in paticular. Perhaps there is an influence up from the Congo? Perhaps the form was adopted by the Arabs after defeat at the hands of Christian Spain? It could even be a native version before the Muslim city states? The picture Mandra and Shi, how far does this go?

The appearance of the sword in North Africa has of course history to the Romans and the Vandals, and of course in the 7th century with the expansion of the Muslims from the East. By the 12th century the Almohads empire covered most of the North African regions that now comprise the Maghreb as well as Al Andalus (Moorish Spain). By the 13th century only the Emirate of Granada remained as a Muslim state in Spain, and tribute was paid to Castile by Mali and Burkina Faso kingdoms in gold. By the time of the Nasrids in Al Andalus in the 15th century, the considerable presence of broadswords in North Africa must have been impressive.

Of course the Portuguese had reached inwardly from West Africa in certain degree in the 15th century, and Briggs notes the commercial contacts the Tuareg had with Europeans in Mauretania regions at that time. Other sources noted were from caravans from the northern seaports, especially Tunis and Tripoli but of course other lesser known ports as well. The main center for this traffic in commerce was Timbuktu, and to Jenne and Gao on the Niger.

By the 16th century Gao was a main commercial center for not only European blades, but a blade making center as well. Blades often came in through Tunis and Tripoli as noted, and it is thought that these accounted for many of the Italian blades found in Saharan swords....however the arrival of Spanish blades, while we might presume through Portuguese channels, may have also come from the north, as well as the German blades seen.

In all, the trade blade networks were vast and complex, and we cannot define a singular path of influence for the development of the takouba nor the other edged weapons we have discussed. It should be noted that the influences of Islamic broadswords from East, especially via the Mamluks, cannot be overlooked, and with the influence established, the continuation of this tradition was of course enhanced by the availability of European blades entering these spheres through numerous points of entry.

While the bladesmiths of Toledo were of course renowned, so were the Islamic smiths of Granada....and in earlier times, there was a strong presence of Frankish blades that entered Andalusian regions, where they were held in high esteem. Briggs notes that Lhote believed that the inlaying of makers marks with brass or gold was proof that this was an African trait because it had not been noted by European armourers, yet Briggs notes the many examples including at least 13 in the Wallace collection. As I noted earlier, the Franks used the practice, and the Arab Al Kindi was aware of it noting the Yemeni use of it.

Tim Simmons · 3rd August 2010, 05:08 PM

Its true I saw it in THE LONG SHIPS .

fernando · 3rd August 2010, 06:11 PM

Wow Jim,

What a magnificent section of your treatise on "African" sword blades, in your post #15.

'Nando

Jim McDougall · 3rd August 2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Wow Jim,

What a magnificent section of your treatise on "African" sword blades, in your post #15.

'Nando

Thank you so much Nando!!! That means a lot to hear, and I spent quite a few hours going through old notes, references and rechecking before I came to a comprehensible stage to write it..................geez...I coulda just watched some movies instead???!!!~ but I liked "The Thirteenth Warrior" lots better than the somewhat dated "The Long Ships"

Thank you again Nando for the Kind words, very much appreciated.

All the best,
Jim

Gavin Nugent · 4th August 2010, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Wow Jim,

What a magnificent section of your treatise on "African" sword blades, in your post #15.

'Nando

Indeed, bravo!!!

Gav

PS I preferred the book

Jim McDougall · 4th August 2010, 03:33 PM

Thanks very much Gav!

It looks like Martin, ISPN and David's ideas toward this being a sword from Congo, Mandara (Cameroon) regions and a Sahelian sword with takouba like characteristics are pretty much on target. I really enjoyed the research and discussion, and as always, feel like I learned more on the swords of these regions......thank you Martin for sharing this here!

Also, as always, I hope the readers will benefit from the discussion here, and thanks to those who participated.

2nd August 2010, 07:54 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Adding more mud to the water. If we go back to the 1400s, the European arrival on the west coast could have introduced this form, if we are to think in this way. The Portugese in paticular. Perhaps there is an influence up from the Congo? Perhaps the form was adopted by the Arabs after defeat at the hands of Christian Spain? It could even be a native version before the Muslim city states? The picture Mandra and Shi, how far does this go? Attached Images

1st August 2010, 08:49 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Mandara was of course situated in what is now Cameroon, and the kingdom of Kanem-Bornu extended into these regions, including parts of Niger, Nigeria and Chad, with these regions all Sultanates . Muslim scholarship prevailed through these areas, however in many cases there were concerns over the nominal observance of Islamic Faith, which led to thre Fulani jihad in the 19th century against Mandara. The fact that the Bornu state was founded by Arabs, Berbers and Hausa in the 14th century and the continued Sultancys in all of these regions, coupled with the prevalent Arab trade and scholarship in my opinion suggest that there was indeed powerful Arab influence present throughout. Although it has never been suggested that the takouba originated as a sword form in West Africa, it is acknowledged that its presence extends widely through the Sahara, most typically associated with the Tuareg. The influences from the East are noted in certain scholarly references in which many takouba blades are termed, masri, which means Egyptian, loosely translated from the east. The trade routes I have mentioned many times have resulted in many instances of sometimes unusual hybrid weapons, and carried influences as well. There are cases of triple channeled kaskara type blades mounted in rondel hilt type swords in Sierra Leone and other West African regions. These did not originate there, but the blades clearly arrived from the east, either from points of entry in the northern littoral or from trade inbound from Chad or Sudanese regions. Regarding the inlaid copper or brass plug, I have discovered an interesting reference in which Dr. Lloyd Cabot Briggs discusses this phenomenon in his work on Tuareg swords and daggers (p.80). Referring to a takouba with intermediate (south or central) attribution, and with a blade that he notes could be European, he states , "...this blade has been pierced about 3/16 of an inch above its rounded point and the resulting hole is filled by a copper plug 3/16" in average diameter on the obverse and 1/4" on the reverse". He claims another example has a similar hole, unfilled, and that he has no idea what the pierced mutilations might be for. The point is of course, that the practice did exist in Saharan regions in at least some degree. The fact that the instances here relate to Tuareg swords, and they of course only nominally accepted Islamic Faith, does suggest non Arabic source was possible for the copper insert....unless one considers the profound presence of Islamic Faith throughout all of these regions, which influenced Tuaregs as well as many other tribal entities who were more devout followers within these Sultanates. Addendum: Just found another reference which might be of interest, though a bit ancient for direct influence on these swords, still pertinant to a curious practice: "...Frankish pattern welded blades taper to a rounded point. When treatment of the blade is completed some of the blades are marked in the upper part with half moons or crosses of bronze or gold, and sometimes a nail of gold is hammered into a hole in the blade". H.R. Ellis-Davidson noting the al Kindi ref. This information begs the question, just how old is the broadsword tradition in North Africa? and could these ancient practices have been brought into tribal regions during the early occupations there? It would appear that the Arab world did know of the Frankish practice.....since this reference was from al-Kindi. Things to ponder. Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 2nd August 2010 at 03:34 AM.

3rd August 2010, 05:08 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Its true I saw it in THE LONG SHIPS .

3rd August 2010, 06:11 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Wow Jim, What a magnificent section of your treatise on "African" sword blades, in your post #15. 'Nando

4th August 2010, 03:33 PM	#8
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thanks very much Gav! It looks like Martin, ISPN and David's ideas toward this being a sword from Congo, Mandara (Cameroon) regions and a Sahelian sword with takouba like characteristics are pretty much on target. I really enjoyed the research and discussion, and as always, feel like I learned more on the swords of these regions......thank you Martin for sharing this here! Also, as always, I hope the readers will benefit from the discussion here, and thanks to those who participated.