Need help with Chinese bronze sword

Atlantia · 29th July 2010, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Anyway, I wish I could post a picture of it, but while took one on my cell phone, the best I could do would be to email it to another forumite...

If that hasn't been rectified by the time you read this, please feel free to email it to me at gimmieitbaby@aol.com

Edit: email was wrong

laEspadaAncha · 29th July 2010, 05:58 PM

Much obliged, Atlantia.

Now that I am back home, I might post them myself, though I may first want to go searching for similar examples to see if I can find another like it on the 'bay or elsewhere. If indeed is was a fake (a conclusion of which I am fairly certain), something tells me that in a crazy scheme to make a profit, they made more than one...

Atlantia · 29th July 2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Much obliged, Atlantia.

Now that I am back home, I might post them myself, though I may first want to go searching for similar examples to see if I can find another like it on the 'bay or elsewhere. If indeed is was a fake (a conclusion of which I am fairly certain), something tells me that in a crazy scheme to make a profit, they made more than one...

LOL, no worries, don't know why I added www to my email address there, its just gimmieitbaby@aol.com

VANDOO · 29th July 2010, 09:54 PM

THE FIRST TIME I WENT INTO CHINA VIA MACAO IN 1982 AND THE SECOND TIME IN 1990 THERE WERE SHOPS EVERWHERE FULL OF GOODS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THERE 100 YEARS OR MORE SEE TWO PICTURES OF SUCH A SHOP. MUCH OF THAT OLD STOCK HAS BEEN BOUGHT UP AND EXPORTED AND SOLD WITH STATE RED SEALS ON IT. I WILL PUT IN A FEW PICTURES OF SOME EXAMPLES I OWN. SOME HAD A VERY GOOD CRUSTY PATINA AND OTHERS DID NOT BUT THE COMMON THREAD WAS THAT THERE WERE MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF EACH FORM TO BE FOUND IN MANY SHOPS. TWO PICTURES OF A CHINESE SWORD WITH A BRONZE HANDLE AND IRON BLADE SAID TO BE HAN DYNASTY. THE LESSON TO BE LEARNED IS THAT THE CHINESE HAVE BEEN MAKEING FAKES GOOD ENOUGH TO FOOL MOST CHINESE COLLECTORS FOR MANY GENERATIONS, SO THEY ARE VERY GOOD AT IT.

SEARCH IN THE OLD ARCHIVES 8/07/2001 POST "REPLICAS CURRENTLY IN VOUGE" BY VANDOO

VANDOO · 30th July 2010, 12:46 AM

A FEW MORE PICTURES OF EXAMPLES.FIRST PIC. BRONZE SWORD, #2 CHINESE BRONZE GILT SWORD (REPLICA) #3.& #4. CHINESE BRONZE AND SILVER (REPLICA) #5 CHINESE BRONZE SWORD. #6. " 2300 YEAR OLD CHINESE BRONZE SWORD" THAT WAS THE SELLERS DESCRIPTION. #7. SHANG DYNASTY BRONZE AX. #8. ZHOU DYNASTY BRONZE AX
WHICH ARE FAKE THAT I DID NOT PUT THE CAPTION REPLICA I WILL LEAVE TO YOU. SOME MAY BE THE ACTUAL ITEM. AT ANY RATE MOST ARE REPLICAS OF A REAL ANCIENT FORM NOT FANTASY ITEMS BUT I SUSPECT ONE IS PURE FANTASY.

TO COLLECT IN THIS FEILD YOU MUST BE VERY KNOWLEGABLE OR KNOW SOME HONEST DEALERS WHO HAVE THAT KNOWLEGE OTHERWISE THE ODDS ARE YOU WILL GET TAKEN. BUT IF THE PRICE IS REASONABLE AND YOU LIKE IT BUY IT ANYWAY AND ASSUME IT IS A REPLICA EVEN IF IT IS 100 YEARS OLD.

bvieira · 14th September 2020, 03:32 AM

What do you think of this one ?

mariusgmioc · 14th September 2020, 04:22 PM

I believe that good bronze fakes cannot be detected visually even by the most experienced people. For every experienced buyer there are 100 experienced fakers...

Even laboratory testing may prove to be quite difficult and yield debatable results in case of antique bronzes.

The market is practically flooded with exceptionally good fake bronze Luristan and Chinese blades.

In my opinion, the only certainty of a genuine blade is if it is known to be excavated from a known site, like most of the museum pieces are.

Jim McDougall · 14th September 2020, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bvieira

What do you think of this one ?

Thank you for reviving this old thread of a decade ago, which gave us a moment to remember our late friend Vandoo, and the other guys who were most active writers in those days, but have long since left here.

An interesting topic, which would have been great on its own thread as well, along with your own insights with your apparent interest in this topic. It is great to see the insights of Peter and Marius, who are well versed in this field, especially Peter who of course specializes in Chinese arms.
Thank you for posting this! Always learn from these posts!

29th July 2010, 05:58 PM	#2
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	Much obliged, Atlantia. Now that I am back home, I might post them myself, though I may first want to go searching for similar examples to see if I can find another like it on the 'bay or elsewhere. If indeed is was a fake (a conclusion of which I am fairly certain), something tells me that in a crazy scheme to make a profit, they made more than one...

29th July 2010, 09:54 PM	#4
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	THE FIRST TIME I WENT INTO CHINA VIA MACAO IN 1982 AND THE SECOND TIME IN 1990 THERE WERE SHOPS EVERWHERE FULL OF GOODS THAT MAY HAVE BEEN THERE 100 YEARS OR MORE SEE TWO PICTURES OF SUCH A SHOP. MUCH OF THAT OLD STOCK HAS BEEN BOUGHT UP AND EXPORTED AND SOLD WITH STATE RED SEALS ON IT. I WILL PUT IN A FEW PICTURES OF SOME EXAMPLES I OWN. SOME HAD A VERY GOOD CRUSTY PATINA AND OTHERS DID NOT BUT THE COMMON THREAD WAS THAT THERE WERE MULTIPLE EXAMPLES OF EACH FORM TO BE FOUND IN MANY SHOPS. TWO PICTURES OF A CHINESE SWORD WITH A BRONZE HANDLE AND IRON BLADE SAID TO BE HAN DYNASTY. THE LESSON TO BE LEARNED IS THAT THE CHINESE HAVE BEEN MAKEING FAKES GOOD ENOUGH TO FOOL MOST CHINESE COLLECTORS FOR MANY GENERATIONS, SO THEY ARE VERY GOOD AT IT. SEARCH IN THE OLD ARCHIVES 8/07/2001 POST "REPLICAS CURRENTLY IN VOUGE" BY VANDOO Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 30th July 2010 at 12:39 AM.

30th July 2010, 12:46 AM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A FEW MORE PICTURES OF EXAMPLES.FIRST PIC. BRONZE SWORD, #2 CHINESE BRONZE GILT SWORD (REPLICA) #3.& #4. CHINESE BRONZE AND SILVER (REPLICA) #5 CHINESE BRONZE SWORD. #6. " 2300 YEAR OLD CHINESE BRONZE SWORD" THAT WAS THE SELLERS DESCRIPTION. #7. SHANG DYNASTY BRONZE AX. #8. ZHOU DYNASTY BRONZE AX WHICH ARE FAKE THAT I DID NOT PUT THE CAPTION REPLICA I WILL LEAVE TO YOU. SOME MAY BE THE ACTUAL ITEM. AT ANY RATE MOST ARE REPLICAS OF A REAL ANCIENT FORM NOT FANTASY ITEMS BUT I SUSPECT ONE IS PURE FANTASY. TO COLLECT IN THIS FEILD YOU MUST BE VERY KNOWLEGABLE OR KNOW SOME HONEST DEALERS WHO HAVE THAT KNOWLEGE OTHERWISE THE ODDS ARE YOU WILL GET TAKEN. BUT IF THE PRICE IS REASONABLE AND YOU LIKE IT BUY IT ANYWAY AND ASSUME IT IS A REPLICA EVEN IF IT IS 100 YEARS OLD. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 30th July 2010 at 01:01 AM.

14th September 2020, 03:32 AM	#6
bvieira Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 108	What do you think of this one ? Attached Images

14th September 2020, 04:22 PM	#7
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	I believe that good bronze fakes cannot be detected visually even by the most experienced people. For every experienced buyer there are 100 experienced fakers... Even laboratory testing may prove to be quite difficult and yield debatable results in case of antique bronzes. The market is practically flooded with exceptionally good fake bronze Luristan and Chinese blades. In my opinion, the only certainty of a genuine blade is if it is known to be excavated from a known site, like most of the museum pieces are.