Appreciation

VANDOO · 21st July 2010, 03:51 AM

I CAN'T BREAK ANY NEW GROUND HERE BUT WILL TRY AND EXPLAIN MY PERSONEL ATTRACTION AND INTREST AND MY REASONS FOR IT. THE PERSONALITY I WAS BORN WITH HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE INTERESTED IN MOST EVERYTHING AND I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN VERY OBSERVANT. I STARTED WITH BUGS AND HAD A COLLECTION OF SORTS WHEN I WAS TWO YEARS OLD.
MY INTREST IS DRAWN BY CURIOSITY OF ANYTHING NEW, DIFFERENT OR UNUSUAL. ANY NEW THING IS NEVER ORDINARY UNTIL YOU ARE AROUND MANY FOR A LONG TIME AND SOME THINGS SUCH AS THE KERIS NEVER BECOME ORDINARY. MY INTRESTS ARE MANY AND I AM LIKE A BUTTERFLY GOING QUICKLY FROM ONE FLOWER TO THE NEXT. MY INTRESTS IN SUCH THINGS AS KERIS REMAIN BUT TIME AND OTHER THINGS TAKE ME AWAY UNTIL I RETURN AGAIN.
THERE IS A MUCH GREATER LIKELYHOOD OF CHILDREN RAISED IN A KERIS CULTURE BECOMING INTERESTED IN THEM. BUT I THINK THE NORM IN THAT CULTURE IS TO FOLLOW THE TRADITIONAL USES AND CEREMONIES RELATED TO THE KERIS. TO COLLECT LOTS OF KERIS BECAUSE YOU LIKE THEM WOULD PROBABLY BE UNUSUAL IN THEIR SOCIETY AND OF COURSE ONLY THE WEALTHY COULD AFFORD TO COLLECT MANY.
I READ SOME ADVENTURE BOOKS WHERE THE KERIS WAS MENTIONED WHEN I WAS A YOUNG BOY AND SAW MY FIRST KERIS IN THE 1960'S. IT WAS SOMETHING NEW AND EXOTIC AND THE PRICE WAS FIVE DOLLARS SO I BOUGHT IT. IT WAS NOT A GREAT SPECIMIN BUT THE PATTERNS IN THE BLADE AND THE BELIEF THAT ALL KERIS BLADES WERE MADE FROM METEOR IRON MADE IT VERY INTERESTING AND ATTRACTIVE TO ME.
THIS MADE ME LOOK FOR INFORMATION AND I FOUND A LIMITED AMOUNT AT THE LIBRARY BUT LEARNED MORE FROM AN OLD COLLECTOR AND DEALER WHO HAD ACTUALLY TRAVELED THE WORLD AND FOUGHT IN THE WAR. HE HAD A LOT OF KNOWLEGE AND TOLD GREAT STORIES EVEN THOUGH WHAT HE HAD FOR SALE WAS WAY OUT OF MY PRICE RANGE AT THE TIME. I ALWAYS LOOKED FORWARD TO VISITING WITH HIM TWICE A YEAR AT THE LOCAL GUN SHOW.
I PREFER A WEAPON THAT HAS BEEN OWNED AND USED BY A PERSON IN THE CULTURE FROM WHICH IT COMES. THESE KERIS HAVE A HISTORY AND STORY THAT GOES WITH THEM EVEN THOUGH WE MAY NOT KNOW IT. I LOOK AT THE WEAR AND PATINA AND PONDER THE STORY AND HISTORY, I ALSO APPRECIATE THE WORKMANSHIP AND THE PATTERNS AND BEAUTY IN THE BLADE AND THE WOOD. I CAN STAND AND LOOK AT THE PATTERNS IN A GOOD VAN GOUGH PAINTING AND CAN DO THE SAME WITH A COMPLICATED SWIRLING PATTERN IN A KERIS BLADE.
PERHAPS WE ALL HAVE A NEED TO STUDY AND LEARN WHICH LEADS US TO OUR VARIED INTRESTS. WHILE SOME MAY ONLY COLLECT THE KNOWLEGE OTHERS OF US NEED THE ACTUAL OBJECTS TO STRENGTHEN AND ENRICH THE LEARNING PROCESS. SOME OF US GET ENJOYMENT SHAREING WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED AND OTHERS GAURD THEIR KNOWLEGE JELOUSLY. EACH TO HIS OWN

SOMETHING NEW AND UNUSUAL WILL ATTRACT MORE INTEREST THAN SOMETHING COMMON AND ORDINARY.

WAYS AND REASONS TO COLLECT.
1. A GREAT EMPU HAS PASSED AWAY AND THEREFORE NO MORE KERIS OR FITTINGS WILL BE MADE BY HIM. THIS WILL MAKE IT ATTRACTIVE AS AN INVESTMENT FOR SOME AND OTHERS WILL WISH TO HAVE ONE FOR SENIMENTAL REASONS OR PERHAPS SPIRITUAL REASONS AS THE KERIS WOULD HAVE THE SPECIAL POWERS THAT EMPU WAS KNOWN TO PUT INTO HIS WORK.
2. THE MYSTIQUE OR POWER ASSOCIATED WITH THE MAKER OR THE FAMOUS OWNERS OR FAMILY OR PERHAPS OF SOME GREAT BATTLE OR DEED. A KERIS CAN NOT GAIN FAME WITHOUT THE GREAT DEEDS OF THE OWNER.
3. SOME MAY START COLLECTING BECAUSE THEY SEE SOMEONES COLLECTION. IT MAY BE BECAUSE THEY WISH TO COMPETE WITH THEM AND OUT DO THEM OR JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE FACINATED BY THE KERIS AND THE STORIES.

I DON'T COLLECT BECAUSE OF FADS AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INDEPENDENT AND WENT MY OWN WAY WEATHER IT WAS POPULAR OR NOT. THIS HAS SERVED ME WELL AGAINST SALES AND PROMOTION AS I BUY WHAT I LIKE NOT WHAT THEY SAY I SHOULD BUY. AND I WILL JUST AS QUICKLY BUY A NEW KERIS IF THE QUALITY AND PRICE ARE GOOD AS I WILL BUY AN OLD ONE.

Laowang · 22nd July 2010, 05:13 AM

While we may be urged to appreciate works of art objectively, I'm not sure in truth anything is really appreciated objectively. Anything meant to be appreciated for its aesthetic content is received subjectively; we've been socialized since birth in the ways in which we respond to things. A painting by Vermeer or Picasso or Cai Guo-Qiang is beautiful or moving because we have been socialized to perceive it that way, and respond to it in that manner, although of course as humans we do not all react in the same manner.

Hence, the story is important. It may be the story the creator of the object intended, or didn't intend, or a completely separate story we bring to the object. Perhaps it doesn't matter. Once an object enters the world it becomes the property of the world, and open to multiple readings.

Traditionally collectors have collected and appreciated objects for all sorts of reasons. Traditional Chinese literati collected paintings, poems, and rubbings of ancient stele not only for perceived intrinsic beauty, but also because it was something one did as literati, just as you also painted and wrote poetry. It was also a form of recreation, in which you and your friends would get together, have a drink, and appreciate some items from your collection. (In that regard, this forum serves a similar purpose, but without the alcoholic beverages)

Victorian English collected for a number of reasons; the expanding English empire gave them access to many more things. Partly collecting was a demonstration of their reach and power across the globe, but they also had great curiosity for things (orchids, rhododendrons), a burgeoning interest in science (insects, birds, fossils, minerals), and many other motivations that don't come currently to mind.

As an occasional collector of keris who grew up in relatively mainstream American culture, there were a great many things to prompt an interest, some of which has been mentioned by others. Novels and stories, from Conrad to Robert Louis Stevenson to Tolkein; interest in knights, pirates, South Seas adventures; modern incarnations such as Dungeons & Dragons, etc.

I first came across keris several years ago, during a trip to Singapore with my wife to visit in-laws. My brother-in-law had a beautiful old keris tajong he was holding for a Malay friend, who was living abroad for work. At the instruction of the friend, he kept it in a cabinet near the entrance to his flat, with the hilt facing the door; according to his friend, this would help protect him and his family. This certainly caught my attention; not so much that I viewed the keris in any way as magical, but that someone had crafted it at some point in time with that belief, and others continued to possess it with the same belief. In the world we currently live in, where the vast majority of objects that surround us are produced somewhat indifferently in factories, and are identical from piece to piece, the keris is remarkable for this contrast.

Perhaps most importantly, for me, the keris is meant to be held. In this regard it is unlike so many other things that one could collect. The hulu is designed for one's hand, and the weight and form of the blade to be properly handled by that hand. The heft of a keris in one's hand provides a kind of tactile pleasure unequaled by any other collectible object I can think of. And the range of weights and fits of keris, from light and (relatively) delicate cotengs and keris selit, to large Bugis and Balinese blades, only makes that distinction from other objects even greater.

BluErf · 22nd July 2010, 03:00 PM

Would appreciation not have its root in how we value things? We appreciate an object because we assign a high value to it. We would never appreciate anything that we feel is useless, cheap or not beautiful - in effect anything that is of no worth to us.

If we appreciate something, perhaps we would do more to affirm that value we see in the object. That could include collecting, protecting, singing praises, consuming, ensure the continued transmission of that object, etc etc.

Then going back to question of why do we value things - how about evolutionary effects? If something we appreciate is good for us and helps us survive, then, wouldn't a well-honed sense of understanding what is good for us help us survive better? With much of the human race no longer concerned with finding food on a day-to-day basis, and with the new 'unnatural' pressures arising from our social circumstance, perhaps that sense of appreciation has moved from basic necessities to more unusual things like art and kerises. Things that help us handle modern life better.

Perhaps the world is becoming so literal and visual, and the mysterious world is no longer that mysterious, we appreciate objects that help us feel that sense of mystery and wonder; something that allows us to hold on to the hope that the world is more than it seems; there are more possibilities; I can break out of this tired and shrinking world!!! This is something that helps us bear with our present world.

Rick · 22nd July 2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluErf

Perhaps the world is becoming so literal and visual, and the mysterious world is no longer that mysterious, we appreciate objects that help us feel that sense of mystery and wonder; something that allows us to hold on to the hope that the world is more than it seems; there are more possibilities; I can break out of this tired and shrinking world!!! This is something that helps us bear with our present world.

This . ^^^^
Hammer; meet nail .

sirek · 22nd July 2010, 09:22 PM

I can go along with the idea:
“Collecting is an instinctual behaviour and is genetically fixed.”

You can enumerate several reasons why someone collected:

-it gives respect and appreciation
-pleasure, sensory pleasure and aesthetic pleasure
-the excitement of the search for specific things and the hunt for more
-a combination of passion and pleasure
-greed, some collectors simply want more and more
-trade or investment funds, just for financial gain
-distinguish you, profiling, collecting art shows good taste
-attention and respect, image building prestige, ambition,

Add something to your collection works as a kind of antidepressant:
your body will reward you with a brief shot happiness.

Collection is also rewarded by a social component:
that of community life. (As in this forum).
A collector with a nice keris can make no impression on his neighbour, but he can during a keris-meeting. (Or the neighbour must also be a keris collector

)

But the question still remains: Why collect a keris ? And not an other form of artwork?
Why I bought as a child at a flea market among a thousand other things a keris? Or perhaps was it because the seller had a good story? And I also bought a story with emotion?

I have unfortunately no answer. I live in Europe and have no keris culture but I'm still interested in the keris, appreciate the craftsmanship, respect the culture. Therefore I believe that it is a form of instinct.

Rick · 24th July 2010, 08:04 PM

I think many of us may accumulate other works of art or something else beside only the keris .

In the past I, like David, was a bottle digger .
That was almost more of a sport than a hobby .

Original marine art is another of my interests; ties in nicely with the whole draw of the keris for me as does my interest in Asian art .
When I enjoy these I can plug in to that peaceful place .

You could almost call it a form of self-medication .

A. G. Maisey · 31st July 2010, 01:46 AM

Well, it seems as if during the past week, nobody has had any further thoughts on the matter under discussion here.

Perhaps we have exhausted the subject.

I've read through all of the posts more than a few times, and the message that I am getting seems to come down to this:-

1) --- our appreciation of anything can never take place except against the background of previous experience

2) --- this previous experience creates a matrix that we use either consciously or sub-consciously to evaluate the subject of our appreciation

3) --- the way in which the item that we evaluate is appreciated has an effect upon our emotional state

4) --- the effect upon our emotional state is beneficial to our overall well-being.

If this is so, then it is certain that we can never evaluate, nor consider an object in a purely subjective fashion. We are, if you will, unavoidably locked into evaluation of the object against everything that has previously entered our experience. We may try to be subjective, but our subjectivity is inevitably expressed in an objective fashion.

In other words, we're all hooked on "the story".

As I think is clear from the postings to this thread, that "story" is a little bit different for each of us.

But what is the purpose of this arguably self delusionary process?

Maybe Rick has summed it up very precisely as "self medication".

Does anybody have any further thoughts on this matter?

22nd July 2010, 03:00 PM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Would appreciation not have its root in how we value things? We appreciate an object because we assign a high value to it. We would never appreciate anything that we feel is useless, cheap or not beautiful - in effect anything that is of no worth to us. If we appreciate something, perhaps we would do more to affirm that value we see in the object. That could include collecting, protecting, singing praises, consuming, ensure the continued transmission of that object, etc etc. Then going back to question of why do we value things - how about evolutionary effects? If something we appreciate is good for us and helps us survive, then, wouldn't a well-honed sense of understanding what is good for us help us survive better? With much of the human race no longer concerned with finding food on a day-to-day basis, and with the new 'unnatural' pressures arising from our social circumstance, perhaps that sense of appreciation has moved from basic necessities to more unusual things like art and kerises. Things that help us handle modern life better. Perhaps the world is becoming so literal and visual, and the mysterious world is no longer that mysterious, we appreciate objects that help us feel that sense of mystery and wonder; something that allows us to hold on to the hope that the world is more than it seems; there are more possibilities; I can break out of this tired and shrinking world!!! This is something that helps us bear with our present world. Last edited by BluErf; 22nd July 2010 at 03:26 PM.

21st July 2010, 03:51 AM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I CAN'T BREAK ANY NEW GROUND HERE BUT WILL TRY AND EXPLAIN MY PERSONEL ATTRACTION AND INTREST AND MY REASONS FOR IT. THE PERSONALITY I WAS BORN WITH HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE INTERESTED IN MOST EVERYTHING AND I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN VERY OBSERVANT. I STARTED WITH BUGS AND HAD A COLLECTION OF SORTS WHEN I WAS TWO YEARS OLD. MY INTREST IS DRAWN BY CURIOSITY OF ANYTHING NEW, DIFFERENT OR UNUSUAL. ANY NEW THING IS NEVER ORDINARY UNTIL YOU ARE AROUND MANY FOR A LONG TIME AND SOME THINGS SUCH AS THE KERIS NEVER BECOME ORDINARY. MY INTRESTS ARE MANY AND I AM LIKE A BUTTERFLY GOING QUICKLY FROM ONE FLOWER TO THE NEXT. MY INTRESTS IN SUCH THINGS AS KERIS REMAIN BUT TIME AND OTHER THINGS TAKE ME AWAY UNTIL I RETURN AGAIN. THERE IS A MUCH GREATER LIKELYHOOD OF CHILDREN RAISED IN A KERIS CULTURE BECOMING INTERESTED IN THEM. BUT I THINK THE NORM IN THAT CULTURE IS TO FOLLOW THE TRADITIONAL USES AND CEREMONIES RELATED TO THE KERIS. TO COLLECT LOTS OF KERIS BECAUSE YOU LIKE THEM WOULD PROBABLY BE UNUSUAL IN THEIR SOCIETY AND OF COURSE ONLY THE WEALTHY COULD AFFORD TO COLLECT MANY. I READ SOME ADVENTURE BOOKS WHERE THE KERIS WAS MENTIONED WHEN I WAS A YOUNG BOY AND SAW MY FIRST KERIS IN THE 1960'S. IT WAS SOMETHING NEW AND EXOTIC AND THE PRICE WAS FIVE DOLLARS SO I BOUGHT IT. IT WAS NOT A GREAT SPECIMIN BUT THE PATTERNS IN THE BLADE AND THE BELIEF THAT ALL KERIS BLADES WERE MADE FROM METEOR IRON MADE IT VERY INTERESTING AND ATTRACTIVE TO ME. THIS MADE ME LOOK FOR INFORMATION AND I FOUND A LIMITED AMOUNT AT THE LIBRARY BUT LEARNED MORE FROM AN OLD COLLECTOR AND DEALER WHO HAD ACTUALLY TRAVELED THE WORLD AND FOUGHT IN THE WAR. HE HAD A LOT OF KNOWLEGE AND TOLD GREAT STORIES EVEN THOUGH WHAT HE HAD FOR SALE WAS WAY OUT OF MY PRICE RANGE AT THE TIME. I ALWAYS LOOKED FORWARD TO VISITING WITH HIM TWICE A YEAR AT THE LOCAL GUN SHOW. I PREFER A WEAPON THAT HAS BEEN OWNED AND USED BY A PERSON IN THE CULTURE FROM WHICH IT COMES. THESE KERIS HAVE A HISTORY AND STORY THAT GOES WITH THEM EVEN THOUGH WE MAY NOT KNOW IT. I LOOK AT THE WEAR AND PATINA AND PONDER THE STORY AND HISTORY, I ALSO APPRECIATE THE WORKMANSHIP AND THE PATTERNS AND BEAUTY IN THE BLADE AND THE WOOD. I CAN STAND AND LOOK AT THE PATTERNS IN A GOOD VAN GOUGH PAINTING AND CAN DO THE SAME WITH A COMPLICATED SWIRLING PATTERN IN A KERIS BLADE. PERHAPS WE ALL HAVE A NEED TO STUDY AND LEARN WHICH LEADS US TO OUR VARIED INTRESTS. WHILE SOME MAY ONLY COLLECT THE KNOWLEGE OTHERS OF US NEED THE ACTUAL OBJECTS TO STRENGTHEN AND ENRICH THE LEARNING PROCESS. SOME OF US GET ENJOYMENT SHAREING WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED AND OTHERS GAURD THEIR KNOWLEGE JELOUSLY. EACH TO HIS OWN SOMETHING NEW AND UNUSUAL WILL ATTRACT MORE INTEREST THAN SOMETHING COMMON AND ORDINARY. WAYS AND REASONS TO COLLECT. 1. A GREAT EMPU HAS PASSED AWAY AND THEREFORE NO MORE KERIS OR FITTINGS WILL BE MADE BY HIM. THIS WILL MAKE IT ATTRACTIVE AS AN INVESTMENT FOR SOME AND OTHERS WILL WISH TO HAVE ONE FOR SENIMENTAL REASONS OR PERHAPS SPIRITUAL REASONS AS THE KERIS WOULD HAVE THE SPECIAL POWERS THAT EMPU WAS KNOWN TO PUT INTO HIS WORK. 2. THE MYSTIQUE OR POWER ASSOCIATED WITH THE MAKER OR THE FAMOUS OWNERS OR FAMILY OR PERHAPS OF SOME GREAT BATTLE OR DEED. A KERIS CAN NOT GAIN FAME WITHOUT THE GREAT DEEDS OF THE OWNER. 3. SOME MAY START COLLECTING BECAUSE THEY SEE SOMEONES COLLECTION. IT MAY BE BECAUSE THEY WISH TO COMPETE WITH THEM AND OUT DO THEM OR JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE FACINATED BY THE KERIS AND THE STORIES. I DON'T COLLECT BECAUSE OF FADS AND HAVE ALWAYS BEEN INDEPENDENT AND WENT MY OWN WAY WEATHER IT WAS POPULAR OR NOT. THIS HAS SERVED ME WELL AGAINST SALES AND PROMOTION AS I BUY WHAT I LIKE NOT WHAT THEY SAY I SHOULD BUY. AND I WILL JUST AS QUICKLY BUY A NEW KERIS IF THE QUALITY AND PRICE ARE GOOD AS I WILL BUY AN OLD ONE.

22nd July 2010, 05:13 AM	#2
Laowang Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: 40˚00' N, 83˚00' W Posts: 52	While we may be urged to appreciate works of art objectively, I'm not sure in truth anything is really appreciated objectively. Anything meant to be appreciated for its aesthetic content is received subjectively; we've been socialized since birth in the ways in which we respond to things. A painting by Vermeer or Picasso or Cai Guo-Qiang is beautiful or moving because we have been socialized to perceive it that way, and respond to it in that manner, although of course as humans we do not all react in the same manner. Hence, the story is important. It may be the story the creator of the object intended, or didn't intend, or a completely separate story we bring to the object. Perhaps it doesn't matter. Once an object enters the world it becomes the property of the world, and open to multiple readings. Traditionally collectors have collected and appreciated objects for all sorts of reasons. Traditional Chinese literati collected paintings, poems, and rubbings of ancient stele not only for perceived intrinsic beauty, but also because it was something one did as literati, just as you also painted and wrote poetry. It was also a form of recreation, in which you and your friends would get together, have a drink, and appreciate some items from your collection. (In that regard, this forum serves a similar purpose, but without the alcoholic beverages) Victorian English collected for a number of reasons; the expanding English empire gave them access to many more things. Partly collecting was a demonstration of their reach and power across the globe, but they also had great curiosity for things (orchids, rhododendrons), a burgeoning interest in science (insects, birds, fossils, minerals), and many other motivations that don't come currently to mind. As an occasional collector of keris who grew up in relatively mainstream American culture, there were a great many things to prompt an interest, some of which has been mentioned by others. Novels and stories, from Conrad to Robert Louis Stevenson to Tolkein; interest in knights, pirates, South Seas adventures; modern incarnations such as Dungeons & Dragons, etc. I first came across keris several years ago, during a trip to Singapore with my wife to visit in-laws. My brother-in-law had a beautiful old keris tajong he was holding for a Malay friend, who was living abroad for work. At the instruction of the friend, he kept it in a cabinet near the entrance to his flat, with the hilt facing the door; according to his friend, this would help protect him and his family. This certainly caught my attention; not so much that I viewed the keris in any way as magical, but that someone had crafted it at some point in time with that belief, and others continued to possess it with the same belief. In the world we currently live in, where the vast majority of objects that surround us are produced somewhat indifferently in factories, and are identical from piece to piece, the keris is remarkable for this contrast. Perhaps most importantly, for me, the keris is meant to be held. In this regard it is unlike so many other things that one could collect. The hulu is designed for one's hand, and the weight and form of the blade to be properly handled by that hand. The heft of a keris in one's hand provides a kind of tactile pleasure unequaled by any other collectible object I can think of. And the range of weights and fits of keris, from light and (relatively) delicate cotengs and keris selit, to large Bugis and Balinese blades, only makes that distinction from other objects even greater.

22nd July 2010, 09:22 PM	#5
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 171	I can go along with the idea: “Collecting is an instinctual behaviour and is genetically fixed.” You can enumerate several reasons why someone collected: -it gives respect and appreciation -pleasure, sensory pleasure and aesthetic pleasure -the excitement of the search for specific things and the hunt for more -a combination of passion and pleasure -greed, some collectors simply want more and more -trade or investment funds, just for financial gain -distinguish you, profiling, collecting art shows good taste -attention and respect, image building prestige, ambition, Add something to your collection works as a kind of antidepressant: your body will reward you with a brief shot happiness. Collection is also rewarded by a social component: that of community life. (As in this forum). A collector with a nice keris can make no impression on his neighbour, but he can during a keris-meeting. (Or the neighbour must also be a keris collector ) But the question still remains: Why collect a keris ? And not an other form of artwork? Why I bought as a child at a flea market among a thousand other things a keris? Or perhaps was it because the seller had a good story? And I also bought a story with emotion? I have unfortunately no answer. I live in Europe and have no keris culture but I'm still interested in the keris, appreciate the craftsmanship, respect the culture. Therefore I believe that it is a form of instinct.

24th July 2010, 08:04 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	I think many of us may accumulate other works of art or something else beside only the keris . In the past I, like David, was a bottle digger . That was almost more of a sport than a hobby . Original marine art is another of my interests; ties in nicely with the whole draw of the keris for me as does my interest in Asian art . When I enjoy these I can plug in to that peaceful place . You could almost call it a form of self-medication .

31st July 2010, 01:46 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Well, it seems as if during the past week, nobody has had any further thoughts on the matter under discussion here. Perhaps we have exhausted the subject. I've read through all of the posts more than a few times, and the message that I am getting seems to come down to this:- 1) --- our appreciation of anything can never take place except against the background of previous experience 2) --- this previous experience creates a matrix that we use either consciously or sub-consciously to evaluate the subject of our appreciation 3) --- the way in which the item that we evaluate is appreciated has an effect upon our emotional state 4) --- the effect upon our emotional state is beneficial to our overall well-being. If this is so, then it is certain that we can never evaluate, nor consider an object in a purely subjective fashion. We are, if you will, unavoidably locked into evaluation of the object against everything that has previously entered our experience. We may try to be subjective, but our subjectivity is inevitably expressed in an objective fashion. In other words, we're all hooked on "the story". As I think is clear from the postings to this thread, that "story" is a little bit different for each of us. But what is the purpose of this arguably self delusionary process? Maybe Rick has summed it up very precisely as "self medication". Does anybody have any further thoughts on this matter?