Preserving wooden kris hilt

jonng · 31st May 2010, 05:31 AM

Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed?

jonng · 31st May 2010, 05:46 AM

Better pics.

Marcokeris · 31st May 2010, 06:06 AM

I'ld put a very little red-brown wax inside the cracks (...very nice hit)

A. G. Maisey · 31st May 2010, 07:35 AM

It depends what your personal standards are.

If you want to try to make it look as it was when newly carved, you could proceed as Marco suggests, and fill the cracks with hard wax of a compatible colour.

I personally don't like this approach, but I must emphasise that this is a valid approach. My dislike of it is just a personal thing. I used to follow this approach many years ago, and hilts with cracks that I have from 30 or 40 years ago have often been filled with one medium or another.

However, these days I tend to do as little as I can get away with when it comes to old hilts. If I think I can take up cracking with oil, I'll follow that course, but if the cracks are not too bad, I'm more inclined these days to leave them as they are.

My objection to the use of fillers is that they are a purely cosmetic approach that does absolutely nothing to assist preservation:- in other words, they can make something look good for perhaps your lifetime, but in time the filler will fall out and you're left with a hilt that still needs attention.

We only have a loan of any of these things --- keris, hilts & etc. If we truly have a love of the art and a respect for the craftsmen who produced it, we have an obligation to try to make it last another generation or two.

If this were my hilt I'd probably start hand rubbing raw linseed into it. The cracking is not bad, and I could easily live with it the way it is, but that wood looks hungry to me. I'd probably put this alongside my lounge chair and feed it with hand rubbed raw linseed for a couple of months and see what happens. Just a few drops in the palm of your hand and rub it in until it disappears from the surface of the wood, and your hands. Concentrate on the cracks and try to work the oil into the cracks.

Jean · 31st May 2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed?

Hello Jonng,
Nasty cracks, I would do as Marco suggests (filling with dyed wax) or as Alan if you have enough patience! By the way the hilt is very finely carved but does not seem VERY old to me as there is no clear sign of wear to the carved motifs (see my specimens for reference).
I tried olive oil which is excellent for nourishing the wood as mentioned by Alan but... it stinks after drying may be unless you rub and rub again.
Best regards
Jean

jonng · 31st May 2010, 10:53 AM

Thank you all for your kind advice. No luck buying raw linseed oil so far. I have oiled it with olive oil and almond oil. Olive oil disappears in minutes. Almond oil stays longer. Some chatoyancy is appearing around the beak/ nose, eyes and "fang" which is nice.
How old the hilt is? I'm not sure. It certainly is not a new one. I have added a few more shots. Maybe forum members would like to have a go at it's age.

jonng · 31st May 2010, 11:06 AM

This one is from the Asian Civilisation Museum. Wood seems similar, but not elaborately carved, to show off the nice chatoyancy. Dated late 19th century if I remember correctly.

Sajen · 31st May 2010, 05:10 PM

Your hilt under discussion seems to be from a hard wood while the hilts from Jean are from more soft wood. So the missing signs of wear are in my opinion not a clear indication of the age from the hilt.

I would try the advice from Alan but you need patience. When this don't help you still have the option to fill the cracks with wax.

DAHenkel · 1st June 2010, 12:22 AM

I'm not a conservator but I work with them and there's a reason why the root of their profession is the same as that of the word conservative

9 times out of 10 a conservator will tell you to do nothing (or at least not very much) at all. Unless the crack is actively spreading the best and safest approach is non-intervention or minimal intervention. A little pledge to polish up won't hurt either way, but as soon as you start soaking things in oil you throw things out of whack and you could make things worse.

If the crack is active though and spreading you might consider some if the remedys suggested but go slow and observe carefully.

Sometimes the conservators drive us crazy but they're usually right.

A. G. Maisey · 1st June 2010, 02:35 AM

David, I'm the only one here who has mentioned soaking in oil, so I guess your remarks are directed at me, or, if not at me, at least at my remarks.

The objectives of conservation are different to the objectives of restoration.

In conservation we attempt to freeze a material object in time, that is, we attempt to prevent it from deteriorating any further than it already has, and present a picture of the object at a particular point in time.

In restoration we attempt to return the object to a state which approaches its condition prior to deterioration commencing.

The objectives of these two different philosophies are also different:-

in conservation we attempt to hold the object as close as possible to its original state in order to permit its study;

in restoration we attempt to return the object to its original state, in order to appreciate it as it was , and in many cases to continue to use it.

Sometimes I adopt the view of a conservator, sometimes I adopt the view of a restorator, it all depends upon the object concerned.

A conservator working in a modern museum environment usually has facilities at his command that are not available to a private collector or student. For instance, in the basement storage rooms of the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney, temperature and humidity are controlled, and the stored objects are laid out on glass and perspex surfaces.

This approach is seldom available to a private collector.

Apart from which, many, if not most collectors of weaponry and ethnographic artifacts want those artifacts and weaponry presented in a slightly different way than is held to be the benchmark for museum presentation.

These collectors usually favour restoration over conservation.

Further, within keris culture the dominant ethic is one of continual restoration.

When we consider the use of an oil soak to tighten up grain in wood, or to bring a dry, cracked old piece of horn back to an acceptable condition, we are not conserving, we are restoring.

As with any craft, a degree of knowledge and understanding is necessary to use the techniques of oil soaking effectively. I doubt that I am able to transfer in print the product of my +50 years experience in the use of the various techniques of restoration and conservation, but I can provide very basic pointers and those with an interest can begin the process of educating themselves.

My family background is that of four generations of fine art cabinet makers. Much of the work of a fine art cabinet maker is restoration. I am not a cabinet maker, but I have had some training in the trade. Additionally, I have worked with conservators employed by two museums in Sydney, and have trained several people in these museums in some aspects of conservation and restoration.

31st May 2010, 05:31 AM	#1
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed? Attached Images

31st May 2010, 05:46 AM	#2
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Better pics. Attached Images

31st May 2010, 06:06 AM	#3
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I'ld put a very little red-brown wax inside the cracks (...very nice hit) Last edited by Marcokeris; 31st May 2010 at 07:29 AM.

31st May 2010, 10:53 AM	#6
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Thank you all for your kind advice. No luck buying raw linseed oil so far. I have oiled it with olive oil and almond oil. Olive oil disappears in minutes. Almond oil stays longer. Some chatoyancy is appearing around the beak/ nose, eyes and "fang" which is nice. How old the hilt is? I'm not sure. It certainly is not a new one. I have added a few more shots. Maybe forum members would like to have a go at it's age. Attached Images

31st May 2010, 11:06 AM	#7
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	This one is from the Asian Civilisation Museum. Wood seems similar, but not elaborately carved, to show off the nice chatoyancy. Dated late 19th century if I remember correctly. Attached Images

31st May 2010, 07:35 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	It depends what your personal standards are. If you want to try to make it look as it was when newly carved, you could proceed as Marco suggests, and fill the cracks with hard wax of a compatible colour. I personally don't like this approach, but I must emphasise that this is a valid approach. My dislike of it is just a personal thing. I used to follow this approach many years ago, and hilts with cracks that I have from 30 or 40 years ago have often been filled with one medium or another. However, these days I tend to do as little as I can get away with when it comes to old hilts. If I think I can take up cracking with oil, I'll follow that course, but if the cracks are not too bad, I'm more inclined these days to leave them as they are. My objection to the use of fillers is that they are a purely cosmetic approach that does absolutely nothing to assist preservation:- in other words, they can make something look good for perhaps your lifetime, but in time the filler will fall out and you're left with a hilt that still needs attention. We only have a loan of any of these things --- keris, hilts & etc. If we truly have a love of the art and a respect for the craftsmen who produced it, we have an obligation to try to make it last another generation or two. If this were my hilt I'd probably start hand rubbing raw linseed into it. The cracking is not bad, and I could easily live with it the way it is, but that wood looks hungry to me. I'd probably put this alongside my lounge chair and feed it with hand rubbed raw linseed for a couple of months and see what happens. Just a few drops in the palm of your hand and rub it in until it disappears from the surface of the wood, and your hands. Concentrate on the cracks and try to work the oil into the cracks.

31st May 2010, 05:10 PM	#8
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,212	Your hilt under discussion seems to be from a hard wood while the hilts from Jean are from more soft wood. So the missing signs of wear are in my opinion not a clear indication of the age from the hilt. I would try the advice from Alan but you need patience. When this don't help you still have the option to fill the cracks with wax.

1st June 2010, 12:22 AM	#9
DAHenkel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 125	I'm not a conservator but I work with them and there's a reason why the root of their profession is the same as that of the word conservative 9 times out of 10 a conservator will tell you to do nothing (or at least not very much) at all. Unless the crack is actively spreading the best and safest approach is non-intervention or minimal intervention. A little pledge to polish up won't hurt either way, but as soon as you start soaking things in oil you throw things out of whack and you could make things worse. If the crack is active though and spreading you might consider some if the remedys suggested but go slow and observe carefully. Sometimes the conservators drive us crazy but they're usually right.

1st June 2010, 02:35 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	David, I'm the only one here who has mentioned soaking in oil, so I guess your remarks are directed at me, or, if not at me, at least at my remarks. The objectives of conservation are different to the objectives of restoration. In conservation we attempt to freeze a material object in time, that is, we attempt to prevent it from deteriorating any further than it already has, and present a picture of the object at a particular point in time. In restoration we attempt to return the object to a state which approaches its condition prior to deterioration commencing. The objectives of these two different philosophies are also different:- in conservation we attempt to hold the object as close as possible to its original state in order to permit its study; in restoration we attempt to return the object to its original state, in order to appreciate it as it was , and in many cases to continue to use it. Sometimes I adopt the view of a conservator, sometimes I adopt the view of a restorator, it all depends upon the object concerned. A conservator working in a modern museum environment usually has facilities at his command that are not available to a private collector or student. For instance, in the basement storage rooms of the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney, temperature and humidity are controlled, and the stored objects are laid out on glass and perspex surfaces. This approach is seldom available to a private collector. Apart from which, many, if not most collectors of weaponry and ethnographic artifacts want those artifacts and weaponry presented in a slightly different way than is held to be the benchmark for museum presentation. These collectors usually favour restoration over conservation. Further, within keris culture the dominant ethic is one of continual restoration. When we consider the use of an oil soak to tighten up grain in wood, or to bring a dry, cracked old piece of horn back to an acceptable condition, we are not conserving, we are restoring. As with any craft, a degree of knowledge and understanding is necessary to use the techniques of oil soaking effectively. I doubt that I am able to transfer in print the product of my +50 years experience in the use of the various techniques of restoration and conservation, but I can provide very basic pointers and those with an interest can begin the process of educating themselves. My family background is that of four generations of fine art cabinet makers. Much of the work of a fine art cabinet maker is restoration. I am not a cabinet maker, but I have had some training in the trade. Additionally, I have worked with conservators employed by two museums in Sydney, and have trained several people in these museums in some aspects of conservation and restoration.