Preserving wooden kris hilt

Jean · 30th May 2010, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

Thank you guys! Points noted and very much appreciated. The raw linseed oil treatment sounds like a must try for everyone with a cracked wooden hilt or sheath.

Hello jonng,
Be careful with the raw linseed oil, if not diluted it could be very sticky after drying from my experience, try it first on an ordinary piece of wood.
Best regards
Jean

max · 30th May 2010, 05:26 PM

I very often just rub it with a soft towel. And that helps enough.

A. G. Maisey · 30th May 2010, 10:53 PM

Yes Jean, you're absolutely correct:- linseed oil, either raw or boiled, if allowed to dry by itself will leave an ugly sticky residue on the surface of the wood.

But you do not leave it to dry by itself, you hand rub the oil into the wood.

I have finished a number of gunstocks with raw linseed oil, I still have two guns with this finish that I applied near enough to 50 years ago. They've never been sticky and they still look good.

You hand rub.

However, it is not always practical to hand rub, especially in the case of something that is heavily carved. In this sort of situation you can immerse the entire piece in the oil, and it will usually take up the checking. As with hand rubbing, it takes time. A lot of time. I've got a 1930's Bali carving undergoing this treatment at the moment, I expect it will probably take until the end of the year before the checking takes up. When you take it out of the oil you need to dry it off as thoroughly as possible and brush to get into the carving, and you repeat this periodically until the oil no longer seeps out of the wood.

Where I have restored a carving by hand rubbing the oil it has mostly taken months of daily rubbing to take up the cracks.

None of this is a fast process, but it works.

The use of linseed oil in restoration and protection of wood is nothing new. It has been used in my family for four generations at least, and you will find mention of its use in books from the 19th century dealing with this subject. A linseed oil finish is the ideal finish for a wooden threshold, or external wooden stairs, it also has applications in other exposed timber. It is the perfect maintenance treatment for wooden carpenter's tools, such as mould planes & smoothing planes.

There is one problem with linseed oil, and that is that wood with an oil finish needs to be maintained --- its not a do once and forget job like shellac, or a commercial finish like Danish Oil or Truoil. In a humid climate wood treated with an oil finish will grow mildew. An oil finish is perhaps one of the best for wood articles that are in use, but for something that is to be stored, it does require the occasional rub with a few drops of oil in the palm of the hand.

In fact, just about any oil will help dry wood. One oil that perhaps should be mentioned is olive oil, that many of us would have readily available in the kitchen. Olive oil is an excellent leather cleaner and preservative, and is also very kind to wood, however it lacks the protective qualities that raw linseed has. The beauty of raw linseed is that it contains microscopic impurities that do not penetrate the wood, but lodge in the grain of the wood, over time these harden to give a protective coating.

Incidentally, old cracked horn can often be restored by soaking in baby oil, again , its no fast fix. You need patience.

Again I agree with you Jean:- natural wax should not be used on a surface with detailed carving, for precisely the reasons you mention. However, it is possible to buy good quality aerosol funiture wax that contains a mixture of waxes, including carnauba. Again, the manner of use of this is the key to a satisfactory finish. You spray it on, and then brush with a soft brush, continuing the brushing until the wax is evenly distributed and dry.

Speaking for myself, if this hilt under discussion were mine, I doubt that I would do anything to it other than to put a few drops of oil into the palm of hand, rub my palms together, and then rub the hilt until I could see no oil on my palms or on the hilt. I'd do this a few times over a few days, and finish with aerosol spray wax as mentioned above, and good brush with a soft brush. The cracking would need to be very severe for me to even consider trying to take it up.

jonng · 31st May 2010, 05:31 AM

Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed?

jonng · 31st May 2010, 05:46 AM

Better pics.

Marcokeris · 31st May 2010, 06:06 AM

I'ld put a very little red-brown wax inside the cracks (...very nice hit)

A. G. Maisey · 31st May 2010, 07:35 AM

It depends what your personal standards are.

If you want to try to make it look as it was when newly carved, you could proceed as Marco suggests, and fill the cracks with hard wax of a compatible colour.

I personally don't like this approach, but I must emphasise that this is a valid approach. My dislike of it is just a personal thing. I used to follow this approach many years ago, and hilts with cracks that I have from 30 or 40 years ago have often been filled with one medium or another.

However, these days I tend to do as little as I can get away with when it comes to old hilts. If I think I can take up cracking with oil, I'll follow that course, but if the cracks are not too bad, I'm more inclined these days to leave them as they are.

My objection to the use of fillers is that they are a purely cosmetic approach that does absolutely nothing to assist preservation:- in other words, they can make something look good for perhaps your lifetime, but in time the filler will fall out and you're left with a hilt that still needs attention.

We only have a loan of any of these things --- keris, hilts & etc. If we truly have a love of the art and a respect for the craftsmen who produced it, we have an obligation to try to make it last another generation or two.

If this were my hilt I'd probably start hand rubbing raw linseed into it. The cracking is not bad, and I could easily live with it the way it is, but that wood looks hungry to me. I'd probably put this alongside my lounge chair and feed it with hand rubbed raw linseed for a couple of months and see what happens. Just a few drops in the palm of your hand and rub it in until it disappears from the surface of the wood, and your hands. Concentrate on the cracks and try to work the oil into the cracks.

Jean · 31st May 2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonng

Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed?

Hello Jonng,
Nasty cracks, I would do as Marco suggests (filling with dyed wax) or as Alan if you have enough patience! By the way the hilt is very finely carved but does not seem VERY old to me as there is no clear sign of wear to the carved motifs (see my specimens for reference).
I tried olive oil which is excellent for nourishing the wood as mentioned by Alan but... it stinks after drying may be unless you rub and rub again.
Best regards
Jean

jonng · 31st May 2010, 10:53 AM

Thank you all for your kind advice. No luck buying raw linseed oil so far. I have oiled it with olive oil and almond oil. Olive oil disappears in minutes. Almond oil stays longer. Some chatoyancy is appearing around the beak/ nose, eyes and "fang" which is nice.
How old the hilt is? I'm not sure. It certainly is not a new one. I have added a few more shots. Maybe forum members would like to have a go at it's age.

jonng · 31st May 2010, 11:06 AM

This one is from the Asian Civilisation Museum. Wood seems similar, but not elaborately carved, to show off the nice chatoyancy. Dated late 19th century if I remember correctly.

Sajen · 31st May 2010, 05:10 PM

Your hilt under discussion seems to be from a hard wood while the hilts from Jean are from more soft wood. So the missing signs of wear are in my opinion not a clear indication of the age from the hilt.

I would try the advice from Alan but you need patience. When this don't help you still have the option to fill the cracks with wax.

31st May 2010, 05:31 AM	#4
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Hi Guys! Sorry I used an old pic of the hilt. I have taken a quick snap of the 2 cracks on the hilt. How should I proceed? Attached Images

31st May 2010, 05:46 AM	#5
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Better pics. Attached Images

31st May 2010, 06:06 AM	#6
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	I'ld put a very little red-brown wax inside the cracks (...very nice hit) Last edited by Marcokeris; 31st May 2010 at 07:29 AM.

31st May 2010, 10:53 AM	#9
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	Thank you all for your kind advice. No luck buying raw linseed oil so far. I have oiled it with olive oil and almond oil. Olive oil disappears in minutes. Almond oil stays longer. Some chatoyancy is appearing around the beak/ nose, eyes and "fang" which is nice. How old the hilt is? I'm not sure. It certainly is not a new one. I have added a few more shots. Maybe forum members would like to have a go at it's age. Attached Images

31st May 2010, 11:06 AM	#10
jonng Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 41	This one is from the Asian Civilisation Museum. Wood seems similar, but not elaborately carved, to show off the nice chatoyancy. Dated late 19th century if I remember correctly. Attached Images

30th May 2010, 05:26 PM	#2
max Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 12	I very often just rub it with a soft towel. And that helps enough.

30th May 2010, 10:53 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,059	Yes Jean, you're absolutely correct:- linseed oil, either raw or boiled, if allowed to dry by itself will leave an ugly sticky residue on the surface of the wood. But you do not leave it to dry by itself, you hand rub the oil into the wood. I have finished a number of gunstocks with raw linseed oil, I still have two guns with this finish that I applied near enough to 50 years ago. They've never been sticky and they still look good. You hand rub. However, it is not always practical to hand rub, especially in the case of something that is heavily carved. In this sort of situation you can immerse the entire piece in the oil, and it will usually take up the checking. As with hand rubbing, it takes time. A lot of time. I've got a 1930's Bali carving undergoing this treatment at the moment, I expect it will probably take until the end of the year before the checking takes up. When you take it out of the oil you need to dry it off as thoroughly as possible and brush to get into the carving, and you repeat this periodically until the oil no longer seeps out of the wood. Where I have restored a carving by hand rubbing the oil it has mostly taken months of daily rubbing to take up the cracks. None of this is a fast process, but it works. The use of linseed oil in restoration and protection of wood is nothing new. It has been used in my family for four generations at least, and you will find mention of its use in books from the 19th century dealing with this subject. A linseed oil finish is the ideal finish for a wooden threshold, or external wooden stairs, it also has applications in other exposed timber. It is the perfect maintenance treatment for wooden carpenter's tools, such as mould planes & smoothing planes. There is one problem with linseed oil, and that is that wood with an oil finish needs to be maintained --- its not a do once and forget job like shellac, or a commercial finish like Danish Oil or Truoil. In a humid climate wood treated with an oil finish will grow mildew. An oil finish is perhaps one of the best for wood articles that are in use, but for something that is to be stored, it does require the occasional rub with a few drops of oil in the palm of the hand. In fact, just about any oil will help dry wood. One oil that perhaps should be mentioned is olive oil, that many of us would have readily available in the kitchen. Olive oil is an excellent leather cleaner and preservative, and is also very kind to wood, however it lacks the protective qualities that raw linseed has. The beauty of raw linseed is that it contains microscopic impurities that do not penetrate the wood, but lodge in the grain of the wood, over time these harden to give a protective coating. Incidentally, old cracked horn can often be restored by soaking in baby oil, again , its no fast fix. You need patience. Again I agree with you Jean:- natural wax should not be used on a surface with detailed carving, for precisely the reasons you mention. However, it is possible to buy good quality aerosol funiture wax that contains a mixture of waxes, including carnauba. Again, the manner of use of this is the key to a satisfactory finish. You spray it on, and then brush with a soft brush, continuing the brushing until the wax is evenly distributed and dry. Speaking for myself, if this hilt under discussion were mine, I doubt that I would do anything to it other than to put a few drops of oil into the palm of hand, rub my palms together, and then rub the hilt until I could see no oil on my palms or on the hilt. I'd do this a few times over a few days, and finish with aerosol spray wax as mentioned above, and good brush with a soft brush. The cracking would need to be very severe for me to even consider trying to take it up.

31st May 2010, 07:35 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,059	It depends what your personal standards are. If you want to try to make it look as it was when newly carved, you could proceed as Marco suggests, and fill the cracks with hard wax of a compatible colour. I personally don't like this approach, but I must emphasise that this is a valid approach. My dislike of it is just a personal thing. I used to follow this approach many years ago, and hilts with cracks that I have from 30 or 40 years ago have often been filled with one medium or another. However, these days I tend to do as little as I can get away with when it comes to old hilts. If I think I can take up cracking with oil, I'll follow that course, but if the cracks are not too bad, I'm more inclined these days to leave them as they are. My objection to the use of fillers is that they are a purely cosmetic approach that does absolutely nothing to assist preservation:- in other words, they can make something look good for perhaps your lifetime, but in time the filler will fall out and you're left with a hilt that still needs attention. We only have a loan of any of these things --- keris, hilts & etc. If we truly have a love of the art and a respect for the craftsmen who produced it, we have an obligation to try to make it last another generation or two. If this were my hilt I'd probably start hand rubbing raw linseed into it. The cracking is not bad, and I could easily live with it the way it is, but that wood looks hungry to me. I'd probably put this alongside my lounge chair and feed it with hand rubbed raw linseed for a couple of months and see what happens. Just a few drops in the palm of your hand and rub it in until it disappears from the surface of the wood, and your hands. Concentrate on the cracks and try to work the oil into the cracks.

31st May 2010, 05:10 PM	#11
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,346	Your hilt under discussion seems to be from a hard wood while the hilts from Jean are from more soft wood. So the missing signs of wear are in my opinion not a clear indication of the age from the hilt. I would try the advice from Alan but you need patience. When this don't help you still have the option to fill the cracks with wax.