Apropos display

[A. G. Maisey]

David has just raised a question that I have answered that probably requires a little further explanation.

Guwaya has also commented in respect of the principle of numerical assignment on the basis of gender :- "--- interpretation of uneven numbers of a javanese keris-blade as a symbol for the male princip of the keris is in my eyes or after my understanding an overinterpretation---"

The modern keris made its appearance in Jawa at a time when the dominant philosophy and religious system in Jawa was Hindu. Thus, although the keris is beyond doubt a product of Javanese thought, it is Javanese thought under the influence of Hindu culture.

Hindu culture cannot be understood in the absence of an understanding of numerology and astrology. These are basic principles in the organization of Hindu society. Thus, if we are to understand the nature of the keris at the time of its development to the modern form, we need to understand it within the parameters of Hindu culture in Jawa. This understanding necessarily involves an understanding of Hindu principles of numerology in their Javanese context.

It also involves an understanding of duality as this applies within Hindu and Javanese thought.

The keris can be understood in a purely numerological context, but with Hindu numerology the interpretation of the numbers involved requires an understanding of the basic matrix governing the thing that is to be evaluated.

In the case of the keris, we have an object that is undeniably a symbol of the male, but an object that in some circumstances can be a symbol of the family, community or society.

In its incarnation as a male symbol it requires assessment within a purely male matrix, but in its assessment as family symbol, that matrix alters, as it does for assessment as a community or society symbol.

For example, keris waves in a Javanese keris normally range between 1 and 13. The numbers from 3 to 9 are undeniably male numbers, however, when we come to the compound numbers of 11 and 13, these can be interpreted as either 1 + 1 and 1 + 3, or 2 and 4. The number 1 can be read as an absolute, thus representative of the divine, or it can be read as male. The way the interpretation is applied is dependent upon the factors influencing the interpretation.

If we consider the nature of the numbers from 1 to 5, we will see that there is an overwhelming spiritual tone to a reading, however, when we move beyond 5 we find that there is a tendency to move towards the material.

Thus, although the primary interpretation of gender assignment to the keris must always be male, a much deeper knowledge of applicable factors may introduce elements of the female as a part of the male. In Hindu thought no man is complete in the absence of a woman, no woman is complete in the absence of a man:- the two together make the whole, and that whole forms the basis for the fabric of society.

Thus, consideration of the keris itself, that is, the blade, must always be within the male matrix, however, when that blade gains a hilt and a scabbard we are looking at the addition of things which contribute to completeness, and the complete keris is thus able to considered within a matrix that incorporates the female element, just as family and society incorporate the female element.

The above attempt at explanation is an extremely simplistic one, but I have tried to keep it within parameters that I hope will be easily understood.

[A. G. Maisey]

Rasdan, my interest is primarily in origin of the keris, as such I look at the keris from the viewpoint of the keris at the time of its appearance in its modern form.

In any culture, time alters perception.

Javanese and all other cultures as we see them today and in the immediate past, are not the same, nor do they have the same standards, that they may have had at some time in the past.

In the year 2010 we are 200 years in advance of the time when Raffles observed that the keris in Jawa had become similar in its place in society to the small sword in Europe in the middle of the previous century.

You have asked:-

"---What about kerises that are attributed as female or a patrem, if it have luk why do you think it still have odd numbered luks? Or is it a female keris or a patrem must be a straight one? Does a straight keris portrays both gender etc?---"

To answer this question we need to first know the time, place and reason for some women to be permitted to carry keris.

We know that in Bali in comparatively recent times it was not at all unusual for a woman to stab herself in the heart with a family or borrowed keris before throwing herself upon her husband's funeral pyre. This also occurred during the puputans, and in olden times women would commit suicide, sometimes by stabbing, rather than be taken captive by invading soldiers.

Consider this within the Hindu framework:- a woman cannot have an existence in the absence of her male counterpart, be that woman wife or concubine. Philosophically she has no alternative but to leave society at the same time as her husband.

I doubt that we can answer the question of when and why women were first permitted to carry keris, but what we do know is that the women who carry patrem are usually members of a Kraton hierarchy. It could be theorized that the keris is symbolic of intention to commit suicide in the event of the death of her husband, or of her honour being put under threat.

In a case where a patrem has a waved blade, I believe that we can have confidence that this blade was made at a time subsequent to general understanding of the principles governing correct fabrication of a keris blade.

In other words, whoever made it got it wrong.

[A. G. Maisey]

Regarding Wolfgang Spielman's doctoral thesis.

This has been reviewed and mentioned in David van Duuren's bibliography.

My understanding of this review is that Dr. Spielman has provided a comprehensive, scientific and tightly organised over-view of the keris, which Dr. van Duuren rates as "---deserves to be included with the best general inroductions to the Javanese keris---"

Dr. van Duuren goes on to say:- "--- the author does not develop a personal viewpoint;rather, the value of his work lies in the way it ties facts into fiction and vice versa.---"

Wolfgang Spielman's work is a good general introduction which incorporates information to be found in other already published works.

There is nothing new in his work. As I was told by one very highly respected student of the keris who has German as his second language:- "you will not find anything in this work that has not already been treated elsewhere."

In other words, nothing new, but the content is very well presented.

[guwaya]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Regarding Wolfgang Spielman's doctoral thesis.

This has been reviewed and mentioned in David van Duuren's bibliography.

My understanding of this review is that Dr. Spielman has provided a comprehensive, scientific and tightly organised over-view of the keris, which Dr. van Duuren rates as "---deserves to be included with the best general inroductions to the Javanese keris---"

Dr. van Duuren goes on to say:- "--- the author does not develop a personal viewpoint;rather, the value of his work lies in the way it ties facts into fiction and vice versa.---"

Wolfgang Spielman's work is a good general introduction which incorporates information to be found in other already published works.

There is nothing new in his work. As I was told by one very highly respected student of the keris who has German as his second language:- "you will not find anything in this work that has not already been treated elsewhere."

In other words, nothing new, but the content is very well presented.

Alan G. Maisey:

Literature - we had this theme already. To Spielmann's thesis:

1. It is no doctaral thesis - it is an MA-Thesis and it is also mentioned in the Encyklopedi and other scientific written works.

2. Literature and new ideas is always to be seen when the book or paper was written or published and in context with the knowledge standard at that time. Spielmann's thesis was researched in the mid until the end 80's and by that time the literature situation was different - Harsrinuksmo's 1st edition of the Enciklopadi was not yet published. There was Solyom, Frey and the other essays. Double sided copies in copy-shops were not yet possible.

3. The aim behind this work was for the first part to give an introduction "what is a keris". If by that time somebody would visit a n ethnographic museum and would have seen a keris and then later would search literatur to know "what is a keris?, he would not find any systematic book which explains it. So the first half or two third are systematic organisations of collected information of articels etc.

4. The last 3rd part handles with theoretical conceptes - already difficult for many german native speekers to read and understand and I really doubt that your "highly respected student of the keris with German as his second language" is able to understand the text - or, he didn't read it because to difficlt.

5. The book was never published in another language but interesting is for somebody who goes to Leiden in Holland - there you will find the original book and not just the small paperback - a bit different, but if somebody looks for new informations I only see one possibility - go yourself to Jawa and other places and research! Or pay for it, that somebody does the researches! We had this theme already.

Facit: No new informations but an excellent sample how serious literature should be written. Every statement you can proof via citates. I whised somebody nowadays would create such a serious book, than all this for me boaring picture books with many not proofable statements. Kerner is the best example how literature not should be written. (Besides - I didn't forget you and the statistic of Kerner - give me some time please).

guwaya

[A. G. Maisey]

I thank you Guwaya for taking time from your extremely busy schedule to provide a response to my simplistic and limited comments in respect of the understanding of the keris from the numerological aspect.

I thank you most sincerely for providing your explanation of the term "polarism" .
I do not know this as an English word, and I must admit it did confuse me. Polarity I know, but although I have consulted a number of references, I could not find polarism. Your explanation has clarified your interpretation of this term. Thank you.

In general, I can find very little with which to disagree in your response to my comments.

I chose to introduce the Hindu theme because it is valid, as we know from the early literature, and I do agree that this Hindu influence must be understood within a Javanese context, as I have already stated.

We seem to be of like mind when it comes to the acknowledgement that cultural mores change over time, as they must, for any culture that rejects change soon becomes a dead culture. As Panembahan Hardjonagoro (Alm.) pointed out to you, new influences which affect a culture must be taken in and by the process of syncretism absorbed into the body of the existing culture, only by this process can the core values of the existing culture be preserved. Javanese culture is well known for its long and continued use of the syncretic process, and this is the prime reason for its continued vitality.

I do find your rejection of the principle of dualism as applicable to Javanese culture and society rather interesting. Just as I find your use of the term "polarism" interesting. I tend to believe that you may have some rather unique ideas about Javanese culture and society, and I would be interested in hearing more of these ideas. I think I recognise what you are attempting to come to terms with by use of the concept (as you express it) of polarism. I do not yet know if I like this approach or not. My feeling is that there is no difference between us in our positions, but perhaps a difference in expression of those positions.

The keris is not India --- who will argue with you? I myself destroyed this idea more than 10 years ago.

Textiles : weapons ? yes, we know that.

Distrust of cultural interpretations from those not born into a culture? A recurrent theme and one that is as easily supported as it is destroyed. Very often the cultural interpretations from those born into a culture are as defective as the interpretations from those who have come from outside the culture. It is quality of the research and understanding that counts, and this is not dependent upon place of birth.

As you remark, this discussion is becoming far too diverse for this venue, and I can only agree with you. The problem here is that in order to provide a small foundation for people with a very limited understanding of the ideas and concepts at play in respect of a cultural icon like the keris, we need to introduce a very small amount of material that by its extremely limited nature is open to criticism by anybody with even a smattering of understanding of the subject matter. What I wrote on the numerological interpretation of the keris was intended to provide just sufficient information so that those with limited understanding could begin to have some comprehension of the complexity of the matter with which we are dealing, and perhaps, if their interest was sufficiently aroused to begin some further research for themselves.

But now I think it is time to consider your most interesting comments of all:-


"--- I can hardly find an interpretation which attributes the uneven numbers of luk to the male princip of the keris.---"

I find this to be a revealing statement, and I do hope that in time to come you will find the evidence you currently need.

"--- Hence, regarding the theme of symbolism of the keris it would possibly better to take a keris pesi iras as we here better can see an clearify the concept of opposite pairs and tho over all standing concept of polarism.---"

This sentence I simply do not understand. Please accept my apologies for my mental incapacity.

"--- Taking a keris pesi iras is a good way to introduce this polaristic concept as we have the blade (snake = female and the hilt = representing an ancestor or anthropomorphic figure = male). Both controll via the theoretical concept of the polarism each other and finally build the entirety.---"

This statement is fascinating to say the least, and I am certain I would enjoy immensely a reading of your argument in support of these ideas.


Just as a matter of interest, do you consider the keris as symbolic of snakes in general, or of serpents, or of nagas? Do you differentiate between these three groups? Or, do you consider the keris as representative of a particular entity? How do you understand the idea of "naga", as it applies to Javanese Hindu thought?

I like your style Guwaya: much of what you have set forth is quite close to my own understanding of perhaps 40 years ago.

[A. G. Maisey]

Again I thank you Guwaya for your comments in respect of Spielman's thesis.

Let me make it very clear that I have no opinion regarding this thesis. I have not read it, I cannot read it, and I can only go on the reports of those who have read it. I have summarised these reports and I thank you again for delivering virtually the same opinion of Spielman's work as the opinions I have already received.

My "highly respected student of the keris" is in fact a Dutchman, and although German is one of his second languages, I have the assurance of German native speakers that he is fluent in this language. I regret that I am unable to name this man, but perhaps it is sufficient to say that he is a man in his sixties, an academic, and an ethnologist. It is his business to understand the writings of those in his field.It is clear that since he has delivered the same opinion of Spielman's writings as you have yourself, that he apparently did understand what was written.

It should also be noted that his praise for Spielman's presentation is equally as high as your own.



Taken from " KRISSES, A critical bibliography,David van Duuren", herewith is the complete review of :-

Der javanische "Keris": Funktion und sozio-religiose Symbolik.
(Mundus Reihe Ethnologie, Band 41). Bonn:Holos, 1991.

This published edition of a doctoral thesis, which the author had originally delivered at a Cologne university, deserves to be included with the best general introductions to the Javanese keris. Spielmann has managed to include and concisely review each and every imaginable significant and interesting aspect of the kris. He presents a scientific argument , tightly and systematically arranged . It consists of two large chapters; the first is about the details and symbolism of the kris's ornamental elements
(Detaildarstellung und Symbolik der Verzierungselements"-p.25-92), the second is devoted to its function ( Funktion der Kris'-p.93-141).
These include a selective yet viable survey from the existing literature, complemented by many drawings (taken from the sources in question). Admittedly the author does not develop a personal viewpoint; rather, the value of his work lies in the way it ties facts into fiction and vice versa. In the final section the structuralist models created by the 'School of Leyden' experts and in particular by Rassers, are subjected to critical investigation and consequently deemed overly mathematical and abstract. Preliminary to writing his thesis Spielmann had conducted researches in several German and Dutch museums; in Holland he had also studied the large private collections of A. Th. Alkema and J. van Daalen.

[A. G. Maisey]

In Guwaya's post # 15 he has provided an explanation of the terms "dualism" and "polarism", and has then gone on to base his ensuing argument upon these definitions.

I have given considerable thought to this, and have finally come to the decision that a little more attention needs to be given to these two concepts.

The concept of dualism can have many applications, philosophical, religious, societal, to name a few. If we apply the term dualism to a culture , we are referring to the philosophical concepts that govern the way in which that culture is organized. The doctrine of dualism holds that reality consists of two basic principles in opposition that account for all in existence. However, there are many ways in which to understand the principle of dualism, so, when we seek to apply the term to some particular entity, we need to be quite careful in our choice of the philosophical basis of selection. In other words, we cannot apply the type of dualism that is correct for the understanding of oranges to an apple: we need to select the correct form of dualism to use if we wish to have an understanding of the apple.

The concept of dualism in a culture is not unique to Javanese culture, but over many years the objective study of this culture has caused many professionals in the fields of anthropology and sociology to apply the description of "dualism" to Javanese culture. In fact, it is difficult to find a text dealing with Javanese society and culture that does not at some point introduce the concept of it being a dualistic society.

Guwaya has defined dualism as:- "DUALISM means to build mutually exclusive opposites (yes - no; black - white; top - bottom etc.)."

This is arguably an accurate definition as far as it goes. However, this view of dualism is essentially a Western construct, and it cannot be applied to the concept of dualism as it operates within Javanese society and its dominant culture.

The way in which we need to consider dualism within the Javanese context is more closely aligned to way in which this concept operates according to the philosophy of the Tao. As an example, consider the yin-yang symbol:- this is a circle with a waved line dividing it in half, one half is white, one half is black; within each of those halves, one white, one black, is a small circle of the opposite colour, a black circle in the white half, a white circle within the black half.

The way this is to be understood is that these two opposites exist together in a harmonic relationship, and each carries in itself a part of the other and has the capacity to change into the other. The whole idea of Eastern dualism is concerned with harmony and balance, it is not concerned with two opposites in constant and immutable conflict with each other. The yin-yang concept permeates Eastern thought and is a graphic representation of the natural order of things. Everything is a manifestation of one force, the Tao, but for there to be a recognizable reality there needs to be distinction, thus we have the opposing elements of darkness and light, being and not being, male and female, and so on, but each of these opposites is dependent upon the other:- in the absence of something known as "darkness", there can be no "light"; each pair of opposites operates in a reciprocal way so that each of the pair gives and receives.

Quite simply, dualism in Javanese society and culture does not involve "mutually exclusive opposites"; exactly the reverse is the case:- it involves mutually reciprocal opposites, opposites which depend upon each other for their existence.

This is quite different to the concept of dualism that Guwaya has defined, and which is much more closely aligned with the Western idea of constant opposition. The Western idea is concerned with a dynamic in opposition : the Eastern idea is concerned with a dynamic in harmony.

When we understand the way in which Javanese duality needs to be approached, that is, from an Eastern, rather than a Western philosophical foundation, then there is no need to introduce this other term of "polarization", which in this context is, I must admit, a very new usage of the word for me, but which seems to try to express the Eastern understanding of duality.

[guwaya]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David has just raised a question that I have answered that probably requires a little further explanation.

Guwaya has also commented in respect of the principle of numerical assignment on the basis of gender :- "--- interpretation of uneven numbers of a javanese keris-blade as a symbol for the male princip of the keris is in my eyes or after my understanding an overinterpretation---"

The modern keris made its appearance in Jawa at a time when the dominant philosophy and religious system in Jawa was Hindu. Thus, although the keris is beyond doubt a product of Javanese thought, it is Javanese thought under the influence of Hindu culture.

Hindu culture cannot be understood in the absence of an understanding of numerology and astrology. These are basic principles in the organization of Hindu society. Thus, if we are to understand the nature of the keris at the time of its development to the modern form, we need to understand it within the parameters of Hindu culture in Jawa. This understanding necessarily involves an understanding of Hindu principles of numerology in their Javanese context.

It also involves an understanding of duality as this applies within Hindu and Javanese thought.

The keris can be understood in a purely numerological context, but with Hindu numerology the interpretation of the numbers involved requires an understanding of the basic matrix governing the thing that is to be evaluated.

In the case of the keris, we have an object that is undeniably a symbol of the male, but an object that in some circumstances can be a symbol of the family, community or society.

In its incarnation as a male symbol it requires assessment within a purely male matrix, but in its assessment as family symbol, that matrix alters, as it does for assessment as a community or society symbol.

For example, keris waves in a Javanese keris normally range between 1 and 13. The numbers from 3 to 9 are undeniably male numbers, however, when we come to the compound numbers of 11 and 13, these can be interpreted as either 1 + 1 and 1 + 3, or 2 and 4. The number 1 can be read as an absolute, thus representative of the divine, or it can be read as male. The way the interpretation is applied is dependent upon the factors influencing the interpretation.

If we consider the nature of the numbers from 1 to 5, we will see that there is an overwhelming spiritual tone to a reading, however, when we move beyond 5 we find that there is a tendency to move towards the material.

Thus, although the primary interpretation of gender assignment to the keris must always be male, a much deeper knowledge of applicable factors may introduce elements of the female as a part of the male. In Hindu thought no man is complete in the absence of a woman, no woman is complete in the absence of a man:- the two together make the whole, and that whole forms the basis for the fabric of society.

Thus, consideration of the keris itself, that is, the blade, must always be within the male matrix, however, when that blade gains a hilt and a scabbard we are looking at the addition of things which contribute to completeness, and the complete keris is thus able to considered within a matrix that incorporates the female element, just as family and society incorporate the female element.

The above attempt at explanation is an extremely simplistic one, but I have tried to keep it within parameters that I hope will be easily understood.

Alan G. Maisey:

It is true that the "modern keris made its appearance in Jawa at a time when the dominant philosophy and religious system in Jawa was Hindu. Thus, although the keris is beyond doubt a product of Javanese thought, it is Javanese thought under the influence of Hindu culture."

But even if we have to see the context with the hinduistic culture we shouldn't forget the 'old-jawanese' cultural elements. Those indigenious based cultural elements I for myself attribute more importance to then to those of a culture which came later and met upon an already existing own culture and was in some way adapted into this already existing thinkings. The balinese hinduism is a woderfull sample herefore.

If somebody is interested into the keris he naturaly has to understand the hinduistic culture but in my eyes more so about the old-jawanese elements as this is the basis. You can compare it somehow with the todays wayang performances with those some years ago. Nowadays you will often find islamic elements integrated into the stories and Hardionagoro once spoke to me in that direction: "we have to accept the influences of these islamic elements into thejawanese traditional art, otherwise we will loose the control over it competly".

Before I continue I would like to clear the two terms od DUALISM and POLARISM, as polarism is often confounded with dualism.

DUALISM means to build mutually exclusive opposites (yes - no; black - white; top - bottom etc.).

POLARISM bears not only two conditions but three, with a neutral centre between two mutually dependent poles. The polarism you can say closes the dualism and is an implement for the understanding of the world.

Under this aspect the jawanese culture doesn't follow the concept of duality, it follows the concept of polarism which implies the duality - but is a difference.

If you see the jawanese culture (or the keris in as one representant of this culture) it is of great importance to display the polaristic aspect and it is impossible to see isolated just one of these two opposites as they need each other and only together they build an entire. (There is the upperworld and the underworld and between those two is the middle world with the humans who have to arrange their life in that way that not one of the opposites become stronger than the otherone. Both sides have to be kept in balance, to keep the middleworld in harmony).

This concept you will find in in every part of the traditional jawanese culture (and not only the jawanese), and it is very clear if special elements of the material culture are attributed to one of the opposite sides (weapons = male - textiles = female) and going into the details you will find it inside one item of material culture again. The combination of both opposites then again become the symbol of the totality, of the over all standing and everything unifying entirety.

If anybody is looking or real interested into the symbolik of the material cultural object of the keris I only can warn to see it to much under the aspect of indian influence - more important, in my eyes, are the old-jawanese aspects as far as they can be still researched. But even if they cannot be researched or requested again it is better to leave a questionmark than to force an answer in a hinduistic direction because it is easier to receive information - otherise we run into a situation what Hardionagoro meant when he said: "we have to accept the islamic influence in the jawanese art but we ghave to watch it critically, if we don't, the influence will still go on but without any chance for us to react."

THE JAWANESE KERIS IS NOT INDIA - elements (a lot) are adapted, but it is not all, although many western like to reduce it to this theme, possibly because it is easy as you can reduce your researches upon literature studies.

Under this, my personal view, I can hardly find an interpretation which attributes the uneven numbers of luk to the male princip of the keris. I am aware about the fact that in some literature is postulated that the term keris from the Jawanese is used for the keris in its completness as well as just for the blade. For myself I don't have any proof of the correctness of this statement and it must be allowed to doubt it.

I am always afraid of overinterpretations brought into mostly from members of an outside culture. Unfortunately it is getting more and more difficult to receive serious research results about such questions - if it is not already too late.

I cannot see any weapon, whereever, which is called sword, dagger, keris etc. without a handle. Blades are generally called what they are, sword blade, knife blade, keris blade or better "wilah". Hence, regarding the theme of symbolism of the keris it would possibly better to take a keris pesi iras as we here better can see an clearify the concept of opposite pairs and tho over all standing concept of polarism.

I think that this is a theme going much to far for a platform like here as it is so complex and you could fill a complete semester or more of studying such questions.

Taking a keris pesi iras is a good way to introduce this polaristic concept as we have the blade (snake = female and the hilt = representing an ancestor or anthropomorphic figure = male). Both controll via the theoretical concept of the polarism each other and finally build the entirety.

The main thing is to understand or let us better say to try to understand the importance of the polaristic aspect and organisation of the traditional jawanese and south-east-asian world view in genral. We western educated and grown up people are to fast gliding into the thinking of a "black- and white" sheme. South-east asia with its completely different religious believing system - which besides is much much older than judaism, christianity or islam - is completely different, different in thinking, different in acting etc. and I for myself, I really hope and wish that it will survive.

Already here I apologize myself for the closer future if answering late - but I have to feed my wife and myself and I am "sibuk with cari uang."

guwaya

[David]

Originally Posted by guwaya

Taking a keris pesi iras is a good way to introduce this polaristic concept as we have the blade (snake = female and the hilt = representing an ancestor or anthropomorphic figure = male). Both controll via the theoretical concept of the polarism each other and finally build the entirety.

I am not so sure that taking the keris iras as an example for this discussion makes that much sense since it is the exception to the rule and the great majority of keris have separate gonjo. In the case of a separte gonjo if we are to discuss it in regards to polarity the gonjo seems the obvious female part that is pierced by the pesi of the wilah. The pesi is an intrinsic part the wilah as a whole. So if i break this down to polarity the blade=male, the gonjo=female. I have heard the hilt described as the head of the keris before, but no necessarily as the male principle. What about hilts that depict female form? They are less common, but certainly exist. The so-called "durga" hilt comes to mind immediately.
You keep saying that the wilah=female, but i don't see anything other than your own personal assertion to this. What do you base this on other than your own personal view? You are the very first person, indonesian or otherwise, in my years of discussion about keris to suggest this. I have spent a great deal of time studying the symbolism of the snake (and naga) in cultures throughout the world. It too has a dualistic (male/female) character and nature. Snakes have been seen as symbolic of the great divine mother in some cultures. But due to it's very physical nature it is most often related to the male principle. So i am open to your interpretation, but i think you thesis needs more than your own personal assertion to carry any real weight.
As for seeing Javanese culture as Hindu and therefore Indian, i don't believe that is what Alan was suggesting at all. Certainly just as the Javanese have shaped Islam to the Javanese cultural model, they did the same with the Hindu religion. This does not mean, however, that we can have a full understanding of the synthesis without also understanding the concepts that the Hindu culture brought to Jawa.