Is it a keris and from which island?

Sajen · 12th May 2010, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Alan,

Thank you for your answer. Very clear.

Sajen,

I'm very curious to the tang of the blade. Can you remove the hilt and make a picture of the tang?

Hello Henk,

the item isn't in my hands (until now) and the pictures also not taken with my camera. But I contact the owner and he told me that the handle is very strong fixed to the blade and it's impossible for him to open it.

But you're right, a picture from the tang/pesi would maybe helpful.

Best regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 12th May 2010, 11:02 PM

The tang could possibly give an indication as to the original mounting intent of this blade, however, whatever that original intent may have been, it cannot alter the nature of what we are looking at right now.

Additionally, if the tang were found to be other than round, this would confirm that the blade was not forged for mounting as a keris, however, if it were found to be round, this would not confirm that it was forged for mounting as a keris, because a pedang tang can be of either round section or flat side section.

It is not at all unusual to find this cross-over mounting of blades. I have had, and now have several examples of cross-over mounting, where a badik blade has been mounted as a keris, and where a keris blade has been altered to allow mounting as either a pedang suduk or a badik. This sort of thing is not common, but it is also not all that much of an oddity either.

Henk · 13th May 2010, 08:16 AM

Alan,

Completely true and i completely agree with you. Blades other than keris are found mounted as a keris and also keris blades mounted as another weapon. Also the shape of the tang or pesi can have several appearances. Although thusfar i never saw another shape of the pesis as round.
I expected to see a another form than a round tang if it was possible to remove the hilt. But the answer that the hilt is fixed very tight and that it is not a keris hilt confirms for me personally that this blade is not a keris blade.

A. G. Maisey · 13th May 2010, 09:40 AM

Henk, to clarify, what I said about tangs was this:-

round tang:- it could be a keris blade, or it could also be a pedang blade

tang with flats:- it will not be a keris blade and it will be a pedang blade.

I apologise for using a complex construction.

Henk · 13th May 2010, 11:08 AM

Alan,

Now it is completely clear to me.

Thank you that you take the effort to explain again, what you ment.
Your lessons are as always very enlighting for me, and i suppose i may say for the most forummembers here.

12th May 2010, 11:02 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	The tang could possibly give an indication as to the original mounting intent of this blade, however, whatever that original intent may have been, it cannot alter the nature of what we are looking at right now. Additionally, if the tang were found to be other than round, this would confirm that the blade was not forged for mounting as a keris, however, if it were found to be round, this would not confirm that it was forged for mounting as a keris, because a pedang tang can be of either round section or flat side section. It is not at all unusual to find this cross-over mounting of blades. I have had, and now have several examples of cross-over mounting, where a badik blade has been mounted as a keris, and where a keris blade has been altered to allow mounting as either a pedang suduk or a badik. This sort of thing is not common, but it is also not all that much of an oddity either.

13th May 2010, 08:16 AM	#3
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Alan, Completely true and i completely agree with you. Blades other than keris are found mounted as a keris and also keris blades mounted as another weapon. Also the shape of the tang or pesi can have several appearances. Although thusfar i never saw another shape of the pesis as round. I expected to see a another form than a round tang if it was possible to remove the hilt. But the answer that the hilt is fixed very tight and that it is not a keris hilt confirms for me personally that this blade is not a keris blade.

13th May 2010, 09:40 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Henk, to clarify, what I said about tangs was this:- round tang:- it could be a keris blade, or it could also be a pedang blade tang with flats:- it will not be a keris blade and it will be a pedang blade. I apologise for using a complex construction.

13th May 2010, 11:08 AM	#5
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Alan, Now it is completely clear to me. Thank you that you take the effort to explain again, what you ment. Your lessons are as always very enlighting for me, and i suppose i may say for the most forummembers here.