an insight into museums and collections

wolviex · 2nd June 2005, 07:34 PM

First of all I would like to apoligize for sneaking out for a while, but I didn't want to get the discussion hotter then it was needed. I hope that Tom and BluErf will forgive me, and won't treat me as a man from the other side of barricade. All in all, we are doing the same and we both have the same passions.

Brian: I would like to thank for your reply, because you are here as an arbiter representing both side of discussion. Being private collector, you are also very well informed what is inside the museums, and what problems both sides are dealing with. It's valuable.

You have absolutely right about treating objects as a an art and not only as usable ones. Of course there is a big difference between i.e. 19th c. Austrian military sabre and medieval sword or 18th c. parade karabela. With Austrian sabre you can do almost what you want and test it in many ways (of course with purport) while with the other ones you must be careful as with the baby. Brian is right, we all are, museums and collectors, responsible for these objects, but if the private collector will destroy his weapon, because of stupidy or anything else, he can be only sorry or mad, while museum worker is responsible and will be probably accountable for it with very serious consequences.
On the other hand. There are many sins of the museums, which I don't like and I would like to fight with. Access to the collections is not always easy. Of course, common man just from the street will have to pass more problems than scholar or known collector, but even they are sometimes in hard situation. Many depends on the museum worker's mood. Sometimes you have to wait very long time for simple answers. There are museums which are almost closed even for other museums workers - just because. After the political changes in my part of Europe, musuem are trying to adapt theirselves to hard market rules. This mean bureaucracy, expensive photos, and many many stupid paper-work. Expensive photos are most annoying. Museum and archives are treating objects like private property and not as national good. It is clear for some reasons, beacuse of costs of preservation, care etc. but there are some limits also. Ironicaly this hit only scholars. First of all, they are very bad pay; second they'are writing books often for free; third - often have to find sponsors on their own; fourth - they are paying for archives or museums, "friendly" institutions, big money they practically don't have, just for the basic sources; fifth - at the end the state will rober them because of printed book (taxex

). And then you are witness of hot TV discussion between politics how bad science here is. Sorry if I run too far, back to the museums and collectors

.
Good and friendly cooperation between museums and collectors is possible, even in wide range. If you want an example, I'll give you one. In Poland, in my Museum is existing 50 year old society: Association of Old Arms and Uniforms Amateurs. It have many other departments in the biggest cities of Poland, and these departments are working beside local musems as well. Today you can find there over 300 members. During last 50 years you can count thousand of people, which were passing by. Great majority of the members are private collectors, which monthly meet each other in Museum on prelections, they are cooperating with museum on exhibitions, they are helping museum workers and museum workers are helping them, Associtation and Museum are publishing together periodical Studies in history of Old Arms and Uniforms (lately 12th tome was printed)

. Isn't it optimistic conclusion my friends?

All the best
Michal

Aqtai · 5th September 2005, 12:26 PM

This reply follows my earlier thread about the V&A. Just how easy is it for a member of the public, who has no connections to any museums, who is not a collector or a professional or an academic, but who just happens to have an interest in Islamic arms to view the contents of a museum's reserves?

Jens Nordlunde · 5th September 2005, 02:26 PM

Hi Aqtai,

That varies a lot from museum to museum. You should write to the curator for the department, in good time before you would like to see the collection – at least a month ahead. Don’t forget to tell him that you have collected/studied Islamic arms for a long time, and if you can mention a few things from the museum collection, maybe from old catalogues, it would please the curator; also mention some of the books you have read, Elgood and others. This sends the signal that you are seriously interested, and will, I think, open at least some of the doors. Good luck.

Aqtai · 5th September 2005, 03:32 PM

Thanks Jens.

wolviex · 5th September 2005, 04:38 PM

As for you, the doors of my department are always open, but only during the week (Mon-Fri)

... and you don't have to know Elgood's books to visit me

.

Well there is one problem - you should manage trip to Poland, but because Krakow (Cracow) is most popular city of this year tourist season, and English is hearable everywhere last days, it shouldn't be problematic.

2nd June 2005, 07:34 PM	#1
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	First of all I would like to apoligize for sneaking out for a while, but I didn't want to get the discussion hotter then it was needed. I hope that Tom and BluErf will forgive me, and won't treat me as a man from the other side of barricade. All in all, we are doing the same and we both have the same passions. Brian: I would like to thank for your reply, because you are here as an arbiter representing both side of discussion. Being private collector, you are also very well informed what is inside the museums, and what problems both sides are dealing with. It's valuable. You have absolutely right about treating objects as a an art and not only as usable ones. Of course there is a big difference between i.e. 19th c. Austrian military sabre and medieval sword or 18th c. parade karabela. With Austrian sabre you can do almost what you want and test it in many ways (of course with purport) while with the other ones you must be careful as with the baby. Brian is right, we all are, museums and collectors, responsible for these objects, but if the private collector will destroy his weapon, because of stupidy or anything else, he can be only sorry or mad, while museum worker is responsible and will be probably accountable for it with very serious consequences. On the other hand. There are many sins of the museums, which I don't like and I would like to fight with. Access to the collections is not always easy. Of course, common man just from the street will have to pass more problems than scholar or known collector, but even they are sometimes in hard situation. Many depends on the museum worker's mood. Sometimes you have to wait very long time for simple answers. There are museums which are almost closed even for other museums workers - just because. After the political changes in my part of Europe, musuem are trying to adapt theirselves to hard market rules. This mean bureaucracy, expensive photos, and many many stupid paper-work. Expensive photos are most annoying. Museum and archives are treating objects like private property and not as national good. It is clear for some reasons, beacuse of costs of preservation, care etc. but there are some limits also. Ironicaly this hit only scholars. First of all, they are very bad pay; second they'are writing books often for free; third - often have to find sponsors on their own; fourth - they are paying for archives or museums, "friendly" institutions, big money they practically don't have, just for the basic sources; fifth - at the end the state will rober them because of printed book (taxex ). And then you are witness of hot TV discussion between politics how bad science here is. Sorry if I run too far, back to the museums and collectors . Good and friendly cooperation between museums and collectors is possible, even in wide range. If you want an example, I'll give you one. In Poland, in my Museum is existing 50 year old society: Association of Old Arms and Uniforms Amateurs. It have many other departments in the biggest cities of Poland, and these departments are working beside local musems as well. Today you can find there over 300 members. During last 50 years you can count thousand of people, which were passing by. Great majority of the members are private collectors, which monthly meet each other in Museum on prelections, they are cooperating with museum on exhibitions, they are helping museum workers and museum workers are helping them, Associtation and Museum are publishing together periodical Studies in history of Old Arms and Uniforms (lately 12th tome was printed) . Isn't it optimistic conclusion my friends? All the best Michal

5th September 2005, 12:26 PM	#2
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	This reply follows my earlier thread about the V&A. Just how easy is it for a member of the public, who has no connections to any museums, who is not a collector or a professional or an academic, but who just happens to have an interest in Islamic arms to view the contents of a museum's reserves?

5th September 2005, 02:26 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Aqtai, That varies a lot from museum to museum. You should write to the curator for the department, in good time before you would like to see the collection – at least a month ahead. Don’t forget to tell him that you have collected/studied Islamic arms for a long time, and if you can mention a few things from the museum collection, maybe from old catalogues, it would please the curator; also mention some of the books you have read, Elgood and others. This sends the signal that you are seriously interested, and will, I think, open at least some of the doors. Good luck.

5th September 2005, 03:32 PM	#4
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	Thanks Jens.

5th September 2005, 04:38 PM	#5
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	As for you, the doors of my department are always open, but only during the week (Mon-Fri) ... and you don't have to know Elgood's books to visit me . Well there is one problem - you should manage trip to Poland, but because Krakow (Cracow) is most popular city of this year tourist season, and English is hearable everywhere last days, it shouldn't be problematic.