Paint primer on old weapons?

Matchlock · 26th April 2010, 05:06 AM

Hi Mark,

Thank you so much for starting that highly interesting topic!

The only real examples of painted/stained iron surfaces on early (15th-17th) firearms to prevent them from rusting I can give are minium/read lead painted barrels and locks. Blueing, on the other hand, was almost always achieved by the heat of the smith's fire and stopped at exactly the right color/temperature in those times.

What I have often seen in untouched arsenal situations are barrels painted black for the same conservatory reasons but only in the 18th century and later - which means well after their original time of use.

For today I give some samples from a minium painted barrel of ca. 1460-70 preserved in Schloss Ambras, Austria, and from Schloss Frondsberg, Styria/ Austria, ca. 1540 - the later partially sold by Tom Del Mar, 15 Dec 2004; the barrels of the latter were missing and later replaced by primitive dummies.

More to follow.

Best, my friend,
Michael

P.S. Please see also my previous thread on the world's oldest known existing hand firearm, now preserved in my collection!
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7077

M ELEY · 26th April 2010, 07:08 AM

Thank you so much, Michael, for coming in on this subject. The red/lead painted finish on the Schloss example has the exact type of primed surface as the Dutch sword I've listed in the recent thread. It is very interesting that you note that many of these "coatings", especially with black paint, were put on items later for conservation and mention the time frame starting circa 18th century. It does seem that in my research, that is also when the process began in earnest with naval weapons and such. It stands to reason then that perhaps the lion-hilt sword of which I speak might have had the paint down at it's creaion, circa 1650 or perhaps a century later for preservation reasons. I appreciate the input and must again congratulate you on your one-of-a-kind early hand gun! Your exquisite collection easily rivals or beats most museum collections I've seen!

Mark

M ELEY · 27th April 2010, 12:01 AM

Here's a naval piece with brownish red primer to retard salt corrosion. Sea air just loved iron implements...

fernando · 27th April 2010, 01:12 PM

Hi Mark,
During Portuguese discoveries, colonial swords,the so called crab style, were painted black, firstly to prevent rust and aledgely also to avoid denouncing their presence in action, due to steel shining ... or vice versa!
There are inventories of the period (XVI century), listing them as "board black swords". The term "board" showing evidence of their naval use.
Fernando

fernando · 27th April 2010, 02:38 PM

Also wooden stocks were covered with primers to avoid worm rot.
By the turning of the XVIII-XIX there was a gunsmith established in Braga (North Portugal), who has become popular by producing low cost muskets, that were massively required by imigrants going to reside in Brazil and Angola.
Hi name was Lazaro, and so was his father; due to this he decided to sign the guns with "Lazaro Lazarino legitimo de (legitimate from) Braga", in order not to be confused with the famous Italian Cominazos.
These muskets became so popular that all period hunting muskets were generically named "Lazarinas".
It is widely known that he used to finish these guns stocks with a red paint, to prevent rotting with worm and tropical moisture.

Fernando

.

M ELEY · 27th April 2010, 03:42 PM

Fantastic information, Fernando, thank you! I must do more research on the blackened "board black swords" you mention. That is a magnificent gun you picure. The red stock is quite nice. Is it one from your collection?

fernando · 27th April 2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY

... The red stock is quite nice. Is it one from your collection?...

Oh no; i have selected the more "close up" one from those illustrated in two of my books.
Not that they are extremely rare; you may find them for sale every now and then.
However examples spotted are often of very low quality. There were those made by Lazaro Lazarino, those imported from Belgium, and later even from Birmingham, to feed the increasing demand. Also Liege made their own exports to Africa.
And finally the African started making their own replicas, with barrels made of water pipes ... the usual stuff, with the stocks fully decorated with brass nails, etc.
As a matter of fact, these guns achieved the status of currency; they could be traded for women and, later, they were currency for the buying of slave boys ... as witnessed by Livingstone.
But i believe the red finishing in the stocks was a particular characteristic only used by Lazaro Lazarino.
Fernando

26th April 2010, 05:06 AM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Mark, Thank you so much for starting that highly interesting topic! The only real examples of painted/stained iron surfaces on early (15th-17th) firearms to prevent them from rusting I can give are minium/read lead painted barrels and locks. Blueing, on the other hand, was almost always achieved by the heat of the smith's fire and stopped at exactly the right color/temperature in those times. What I have often seen in untouched arsenal situations are barrels painted black for the same conservatory reasons but only in the 18th century and later - which means well after their original time of use. For today I give some samples from a minium painted barrel of ca. 1460-70 preserved in Schloss Ambras, Austria, and from Schloss Frondsberg, Styria/ Austria, ca. 1540 - the later partially sold by Tom Del Mar, 15 Dec 2004; the barrels of the latter were missing and later replaced by primitive dummies. More to follow. Best, my friend, Michael P.S. Please see also my previous thread on the world's oldest known existing hand firearm, now preserved in my collection! http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=7077 Attached Images

27th April 2010, 12:01 AM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Grappling hook Here's a naval piece with brownish red primer to retard salt corrosion. Sea air just loved iron implements... Attached Images

27th April 2010, 02:38 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Also wooden stocks were covered with primers to avoid worm rot. By the turning of the XVIII-XIX there was a gunsmith established in Braga (North Portugal), who has become popular by producing low cost muskets, that were massively required by imigrants going to reside in Brazil and Angola. Hi name was Lazaro, and so was his father; due to this he decided to sign the guns with "Lazaro Lazarino legitimo de (legitimate from) Braga", in order not to be confused with the famous Italian Cominazos. These muskets became so popular that all period hunting muskets were generically named "Lazarinas". It is widely known that he used to finish these guns stocks with a red paint, to prevent rotting with worm and tropical moisture. Fernando . Attached Images

26th April 2010, 07:08 AM	#2
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Thank you so much, Michael, for coming in on this subject. The red/lead painted finish on the Schloss example has the exact type of primed surface as the Dutch sword I've listed in the recent thread. It is very interesting that you note that many of these "coatings", especially with black paint, were put on items later for conservation and mention the time frame starting circa 18th century. It does seem that in my research, that is also when the process began in earnest with naval weapons and such. It stands to reason then that perhaps the lion-hilt sword of which I speak might have had the paint down at it's creaion, circa 1650 or perhaps a century later for preservation reasons. I appreciate the input and must again congratulate you on your one-of-a-kind early hand gun! Your exquisite collection easily rivals or beats most museum collections I've seen! Mark

27th April 2010, 01:12 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Mark, During Portuguese discoveries, colonial swords,the so called crab style, were painted black, firstly to prevent rust and aledgely also to avoid denouncing their presence in action, due to steel shining ... or vice versa! There are inventories of the period (XVI century), listing them as "board black swords". The term "board" showing evidence of their naval use. Fernando

27th April 2010, 03:42 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,184	Fantastic information, Fernando, thank you! I must do more research on the blackened "board black swords" you mention. That is a magnificent gun you picure. The red stock is quite nice. Is it one from your collection?