Armour?

[Aqtai]

Thanks Ham, I know very little about Russian armour, that is one of the first websites i've seen with relatively detailed photos of Russian armour. I wasn't aware that the mamluks used mail shirts with very large rings, all the Mamluk mail shirts i have seen have normal size rings.

I also found the Russian krugs interesting in that with many of them the plates are not connected by mail like Turco-Iranian krugs, but are attached to some kind of leather liner. It's almost like they are an intermediate stage between mail-and-plate krugs and chahar aina cuirasses.

[Ahriman]

Norm of Silk Roads said that the main distinction between turkish and russian krug is that the latter is made with leather straps. So I wasn't suprised on that.
So these were worn on finer mail? Ok, then... I've heard about this, but I've never thought that "large" means THIS large. Only a bet: the mamluks confronted mostly sabres is CQ, did they? Do you have any info about the ring sizes?
Btw, Ham: from where do you have so much information on these subjects? Are there any kind of book on these? Even now, I have a veeeery long wish list on books, but there's never enough.
Oh, and thanks for the input!

[Aqtai]

The mamluks confronted a wide variety of enemies. In the 13th century they fought European Crusaders, Mongol hordes and each other. The 14th century was a relatively peaceful period, their main enemies were each other. In the 15th century they fought Timur-i-Lenk, European Crusaders on Cyprus, the Kara-Koyonlu and Ak-Koyunlu (although these were minor skirmishes), in the years 1500-1517 the mamluks fought the Portuguese in the Indian Ocean, with mixed results (they hated naval warfare) and finally the Ottoman Turks with disastrous results.

[Battara]

Ahriman, have been watching this and wanted to answer some earlier questions regarding the Moro armor. Here is a link from Oriental-arms to a Moro armor piece with a closeup on the latches. One end of the latch would go into one of the holes in of the rods on the left and the other would be free to go into the one on the right. Behind the plate is brass that would help hold the piece in place to place the latches in place.

http://www.oriental-arms.com/photos.php?id=1466

[ham]

Ahriman,

I have been researching and teaching in the field for many years (I once heard a student say, since the Franco-Prussian War.) Where arms and armour are concerned, one is well-advised not to take anything at face value, but to make informed conclusions-- published information, i.e. books, archival data, inscriptions are all excellent but must be taken in conjunction with physical examination and when possible, application. This is the only way to learn to distinguish between fanstasy and reality, lore and research, particularly with the rise of the internet, which allots credence to even the least informed and most outlandish opinions (to say nothing of overarching egotism) by virtue of their appearance in print.
A museum's geographical location is not a guarantee of accuracy, on any count whatsoever. Nationalism, nepotism and a good many other -isms can and do affect how the public is informed by such institutions.
You might acquire a copy of Robinson's Oriental Armour, it lays out a good typology and plots the evolution of various types throughout Asia. The language is accessible and not given to pointless esoteric references, and the plates and illustrations are informative.

Sincerely,

Ham

[Aqtai]

Originally Posted by ham

Ahriman,

...A museum's geographical location is not a guarantee of accuracy, on any count whatsoever. Nationalism, nepotism and a good many other -isms can and do affect how the public is informed by such institutions...

You can say that again! I've been to various museums in Egypt, and they have the most outrageous inaccuracies. The worst for this is the Military Museum in the Citadel of Cairo, which definitely has its own ideological axe to grind. The descriptions on the items there are ridiculously inaccurate, I got the feeling that the guy making the labels was just making it up as he went along! You get things like a mannequin wearing an Ottoman mail shirt and an 18th century Iranian kulah khud style helmet described as "Ayyubid fighter 12th century".

Here are some example from the Rubens server (an excellent resource BTW) this first is a picture from the Coptic Museum in Cairo of an Iranian Separ shield and kulah khud helmet described as 11th-13th century (without specifying if this is a AD date or Higri date), also check out the description of the Roman helmet:
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/egypt/cairo...ms_and_armour/
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/egypt/cairo...ur/index1.html

[fengmodao]

Hello , I am a new member who comes from China !
1=The China Tibet suit of armour.
3=Light , it was effective with the fire prevention ware to make warm to the compound suit of armour in 18 centuries on the China Qing Dynasty suit of armour
4=Korea suit of armour and China are identical . The fish scale suit of armour . We think that the fish scale is the method that the efficiency is very high . Bear a lot of shocks power .