Ethnographic Arms & Armour - View Single Post

Jim McDougall · Yesterday, 01:08 AM

Most interesting Murph!! I know zippety doo dah on bayonets, but you have certainly piqued my interest! You have already pretty much set the scene with your description and synopsis, it is always great when weapons for discussion are posted in this manner.

However, I tried to check resources I have, and while well illustrated, not much text detail. There is apparently a very good reference, I note here just for readers and those interested in going deeper into bayonet collecting in particular sockets.That is "Socket Bayonets in the British Army 1687-1783" by Erik Goldstein (2001) but the ransom is pretty stiff. The reference I used was "Socket Bayonets" by Graham Priest, a great book, but well illustrated though brief descriptions.

From what little I found, it would seem this may well be from the 'short land pattern musket" (2nd Brown Bess pattern) which was introduced in 1760s with 42" stock as opposed to the 62" of the earlier model.

These were .75 cal. smoothbore.

The markings on the blade would be the 4 for viewer, unsure on the dot(?) and the 'broadhead' might be perhaps the broad arrow of the ordnance?
On the socket, the markings correspond to those seen on some of the bayonets shown, with D being the unit, and number the rack or issue number if I understand.

Samuel Dawes was a Birmingham smith well known for producing rank and file weapons from late 1750s-60s and was still active c. 1804 when he had orders for cutlasses that year. He produced a good number of M1796 cavalry swords.

I realize I'm probably 'preaching to the choir' here with all this as you're obviously well informed already, but again just sharing stuff with the readers.

Thanks for sharing this bayonet Murph!

All the best
Jim

PS...going through listings, found a socket bayonet by Dawes with just a 6 on the socket but the blade was 17" so seems to support your original idea this might have been for a carbine, possibly Elliott's? these were c. 1773.
Maybe look for something from them or other light dragoon units being started by 1770s.

Yesterday, 01:08 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,708	Most interesting Murph!! I know zippety doo dah on bayonets, but you have certainly piqued my interest! You have already pretty much set the scene with your description and synopsis, it is always great when weapons for discussion are posted in this manner. However, I tried to check resources I have, and while well illustrated, not much text detail. There is apparently a very good reference, I note here just for readers and those interested in going deeper into bayonet collecting in particular sockets.That is "Socket Bayonets in the British Army 1687-1783" by Erik Goldstein (2001) but the ransom is pretty stiff. The reference I used was "Socket Bayonets" by Graham Priest, a great book, but well illustrated though brief descriptions. From what little I found, it would seem this may well be from the 'short land pattern musket" (2nd Brown Bess pattern) which was introduced in 1760s with 42" stock as opposed to the 62" of the earlier model. These were .75 cal. smoothbore. The markings on the blade would be the 4 for viewer, unsure on the dot(?) and the 'broadhead' might be perhaps the broad arrow of the ordnance? On the socket, the markings correspond to those seen on some of the bayonets shown, with D being the unit, and number the rack or issue number if I understand. Samuel Dawes was a Birmingham smith well known for producing rank and file weapons from late 1750s-60s and was still active c. 1804 when he had orders for cutlasses that year. He produced a good number of M1796 cavalry swords. I realize I'm probably 'preaching to the choir' here with all this as you're obviously well informed already, but again just sharing stuff with the readers. Thanks for sharing this bayonet Murph! All the best Jim PS...going through listings, found a socket bayonet by Dawes with just a 6 on the socket but the blade was 17" so seems to support your original idea this might have been for a carbine, possibly Elliott's? these were c. 1773. Maybe look for something from them or other light dragoon units being started by 1770s. Last edited by Jim McDougall; Yesterday at 01:32 AM.