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Old 5th August 2022, 02:16 AM   #1
apolaki
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Default 4 Keris hilts

Hi, I hope everyone is doing well! Can anyone tell me about these Keris hilts? I think they are deder from Java but more carving then I have usually seen on similar ones.
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Last edited by apolaki; 5th August 2022 at 03:55 PM.
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Old 5th August 2022, 09:55 AM   #2
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Recently made hilts in fantasy Central Javanese style....
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Old 5th August 2022, 12:20 PM   #3
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Yes! Deder from central Java...one good for patrem
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Old 5th August 2022, 01:21 PM   #4
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Hello Marco,
Are you Raspoutine actually?
I thought he was killed during last century?
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Old 5th August 2022, 01:44 PM   #5
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Most are recent Jean, certainly, and the execution is not particularly good, but these are legitimate forms.

The smallish one looks as if it has a bit of age.
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Old 5th August 2022, 03:55 PM   #6
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Thank you all!

Is there specific names or representations of each?

To me the 2nd hilt looks like a naga?

What is the form/design called for the last 2 that are geometric?
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Old 5th August 2022, 04:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean View Post
Hello Marco,
Are you Raspoutine actually?
I thought he was killed during last century?
Regards
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Old 5th August 2022, 04:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apolaki View Post
Thank you all!

Is there specific names or representations of each?

To me the 2nd hilt looks like a naga?

What is the form/design called for the last 2 that are geometric?
yes !
the first it's a "putri kinurung"
the second a "naga"
3 an 4: variation of "naradakanda"
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Old 6th August 2022, 03:18 PM   #9
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It would be helpful to see the others besides the naga form from a side angle as well.
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Old 6th August 2022, 05:29 PM   #10
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It would be helpful to see the others besides the naga form from a side angle as well.
Hi David, here are the side angles. Also, I am interested to know about the difference between "Fantasy" creations and legitimate forms.

I obtained these because I liked the variety it shows in Javanese deder. If it were your collection, would these be something to add or pass on?

Also, are there anything unique about them in general?

Thanks again for all your insight
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Old 6th August 2022, 06:15 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apolaki View Post
Hi David, here are the side angles. Also, I am interested to know about the difference between "Fantasy" creations and legitimate forms.

I obtained these because I liked the variety it shows in Javanese deder. If it were your collection, would these be something to add or pass on?

Also, are there anything unique about them in general?

Thanks again for all your insight
If was my collection, I would add the last two....but nothing unique. In fact i don't think these 4 deders are a fantasy creation.
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Old 6th August 2022, 06:45 PM   #12
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By "fantasy" I only meant "not standard" and I admit that they are not bad pieces although I would not collect them just because I am a classical collector. The smallest piece has some age indeed
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Old 7th August 2022, 03:04 PM   #13
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two fantasies
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Old 7th August 2022, 08:18 PM   #14
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Still not seeing the "fantasy".
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Old 7th August 2022, 08:52 PM   #15
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Really Marco?

Or perhaps you mean in the archaic sense:- "with sense" (Oxford)
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Old 7th August 2022, 10:46 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey View Post
Really Marco?

Or perhaps you mean in the archaic sense:- "with sense" (Oxford)
yes, fantasies hilt are different.. but I think that all the hilts posted till now in this Apolaki post-page are not fantasies.
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Old 8th August 2022, 02:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcokeris View Post
yes, fantasies hilt are different.. but I think that all the hilts posted till now in this Apolaki post-page are not fantasies.
But why do you identify the hilts you posted as "two fantasies" then?
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Old 8th August 2022, 06:47 PM   #18
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I wrote thinking about what Jean had written. I thought you understood. Instead I was wrong O
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Old 9th August 2022, 12:39 AM   #19
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Hello Apolaki and everyone,

As far as I am concerned, the two rightmost handles are known as deder lempuyangan from Jogja. Lempuyang is a type of ginger and the hilt supposedly resemble the flower of the plant.

The one with the snake is known as deder sirah sawer. Sirah means head and sawer means snake. So sirah sawer means snake head.

Different people may call the hilts by different names.

Last edited by rasdan; 9th August 2022 at 04:26 AM.
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Old 9th August 2022, 01:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
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I wrote thinking about what Jean had written. I thought you understood. Instead I was wrong O
Thanks Marco. Perhaps a wink would have help me understand you were joking.
Is that first hilt you posted whale bone?
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Old 9th August 2022, 03:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
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Thanks Marco. Perhaps a wink would have help me understand you were joking.
Is that first hilt you posted whale bone?
Yes David it's bone. But I honestly don't know what kind of bone
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Old 9th August 2022, 03:55 PM   #22
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Yes David it's bone. But I honestly don't know what kind of bone
It's a beautiful hilt! The dark markings are what make me think it might be whale bone. See this Maori whale bone wahaika for comparison.
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Old 9th August 2022, 06:44 PM   #23
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Nice piece @@ ...you are right David.. they seem mare made by the same material
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Old 9th August 2022, 07:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
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two fantasies

Wow thanks for sharing the photos Marco! I wonder if I were to polish my versions would they eventually become halus like yours? joking of course
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Old 10th August 2022, 12:20 AM   #25
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Default Yep

I agree, it's most likely Whale bone.
We find old Pilot whale (Blackfish) bones in the salt marsh we live on the edge of. These bones have lots of 'pores' visible.
Pilot whales strand on the barrier beach during the Fall and used to wash over into the marsh after storms; now the town comes out with a bulldozer and buries them.
Kino has a kampilan with a whale bone handle and guard.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...+bone+kampilan
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