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Old 19th June 2024, 07:52 PM   #1
francantolin
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Default Flissa sword without ornement , origin and age ?

Hello dear members,

An old flissa I get,

Heavy and crude model without any deco-engravings on the blade and a straight thin but really robust tip .

The scabbard can be later made ? ( + I cleaned the brass mounts )
Lenght without scabbard 86cm/ 33,8 inches
Weight 800gr / 1,75 pounds

Without engravings. I wonder if it is too Iflissen manufactured ?
How old can it be ?
A fighting model, no need of ornement, fioritures...?
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Old 19th June 2024, 08:14 PM   #2
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When I get it today 😬😅

Hopefully the tip is really thin straight but thick and robust as a swordfish rostrum.

The poor man didn't know cork exist....
I wouldn't be peaceful if it had been broken...

And a picture of the seller before cleaning
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Old 19th June 2024, 09:04 PM   #3
TVV
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I have always viewed flyssas as the Kabyle interpretation (and imitation) of the yataghan. If this is correct, than this one has a chance to be relatively early, given the blade shape and the lack of the characteristic decoration on the hilt, blade and scabbard, which is something that probably developed over time. First half of the 19th century perhaps?
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Old 19th June 2024, 11:14 PM   #4
Jim McDougall
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Teodor, thats I think a most reasonable deduction, which I hadnt thought of. We go back a very long way in our discussions on these (over 20 years!) and it seems over the years there has never been any sort of consensus on most aspects of these.

In my own personal opinion, I am of the camp that agrees that the Ottoman yataghan (earlier forms with deep belly blades rather than the recurved most familiar) was the progenitor of the flyssa. It has never been clear exactly when the 'flyssa' form arose in the form we know now, but it seems thought to have been early 19th c.

The flyssa according to some sources is more of a traditional 'right of passage' weapon for young men and while the traditional designs and motif on the blade are pretty standardized, there are inherent symbols and devices that seem to have personal values.

As far as I have ever known, there has been no explanation on exactly how these swords were used, nor am I aware of any evidence of their actual use in combat. While there are some illustrations depicting Kabyle men with them visible, it is unclear if these were artistic license or reliably shown.
I would very much welcome any account or record of these being used and how that was.

The needle point seems often considered a thrusting feature, however it seems quite likely for slashing cuts, that is, if these were indeed used.

As I understand, apparently in the 'LaCoste' reference, the Kabyle 'Iflissen' group (for whom the term flyssa was applied to these swords by the French) after 1850s had virtually lost the sword making to other tribal groups such as the Ait Fraoussen and the Ait Yenni.

Perhaps this might be an example later in the 19th c. in these circumstances with other Kabyle groups following the general design, but without the traditional decorative motif and personal designs?
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Old 20th June 2024, 05:44 PM   #5
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Hello ,
Thank you for the message !
I put a focus of the blade,
Can it be crucible steel ?...
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Old 20th June 2024, 08:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by francantolin View Post
Hello ,
Thank you for the message !
I put a focus of the blade,
Can it be crucible steel ?...
You will need to etch a window on the blade to be sure. This can just be a pattern due to dust and storage conditions in the patina.
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