Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th April 2006, 07:21 PM   #1
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,153
Default Piso Podang?

Despite being called Persian, I maintain that it is a Piso Podang from Sumatra.The handle is very strange: it looks almost like Piso Padang but the eaglehead pommel and the absense of a cavity are intriguing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
Any thoughts?
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2006, 07:27 PM   #2
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,300
Default

Ummmm -- is that the correct link Ariel?
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2006, 07:30 PM   #3
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,985
Question Wha ... ?

Ariel , did you pick the wrong link ?

That's no Piso podang .........

Here's an unusual variant .
Attached Images
 
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2006, 07:58 PM   #4
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,153
Default

Mea culpa.
Rick, your pic is correct.
Here is the correct link.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th April 2006, 09:25 PM   #5
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,985
Smile

I thought that might have been the one that you meant ( I was unaware the auction had ended ) .
A Brother sword hilt in white brass ?
This makes the third example of this style of piso hilt that I have seen .
The blades always seem to vary and I can see this blade is quite pitted .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2006, 01:28 AM   #6
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,153
Default

Well, we might have found a new pattern.
Any ideas about it's origin and the meaning for the difference?
The cavity is supposed to have ritual significance; why isn't it present here? What about the Eagle? Isn't it one of the avatars of Vishnu? Piso Podang came to Sumatra from India (see Elgood's book).
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2006, 01:51 AM   #7
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,300
Default

Guys:

Might this not be a depiction of garuda?

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2006, 02:09 AM   #8
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,985
Smile

Absolutely no idea about the hilt symbolism .
Could be Garuda ....... < shrugs >

One of our members once told me that it resembles an indo military sword ; but There is no consistency in the blades ; mine has a finely forged native blade with very good temper and a hardened edge .
I got mine from a Canadian Seller on Ebay years ago .

Until we know more I think this hilt form will remain a mystery .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2006, 02:24 AM   #9
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,300
Default

Depiction of garuda on the Indonesian Coat of Arms.

Ian.
Attached Images
 
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th April 2006, 02:38 AM   #10
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,985
Question

One would think that if this is an Indo military sword there would be many examples around .
Also , why the Piso/Batak type quillons when they are Sumatran and many are Christian etc. ?
Mercenaries ?

A Batak regiment ?
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2006, 03:28 PM   #11
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,795
Default

Definitely a piso podang. I saw one at the Las Vegas show that was very similar.

I think Ian's point about the garuda is a very good one.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2006, 03:54 PM   #12
mmontoro
Member
 
mmontoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 91
Default

I think Garuda, too. Here's another pretty common example that I've seen referred to as a Garuda hilt.

mmontoro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2006, 04:20 PM   #13
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,985
Question

What puzzles me about this piso hilt form (let's accept that it is garuda) is that there are no other figural types of piso hilts that I know of .

I wonder ; was this hilt form supplied to a certain group of Batak ; possibly Mercs for the government ?

If this was the case I would expect uniformity of blades and hilt materials .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2006, 04:38 PM   #14
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,153
Default

And what about the absent "inverted cup" cavity?
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2006, 07:16 PM   #15
Ian
Vikingsword Staff
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: The Aussie Bush
Posts: 3,300
Default Indonesian nationalism

Indonesian independence was proclaimed on August 17, 1945. Departure from the traditional cup hilt for a more nationalistic depiction of garuda would seem to imply a relatively recent change (perhaps early to mid-20th C.). Would that fit the age of these pieces?

Ian.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st April 2006, 07:57 PM   #16
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,985
Question

I would think if that were the case we would be seeing more of these swords .
The newer ones should be more common IMO .

The example Ariel shows seems to be quite pitted and has a manufactured blade ; it would surprise me to see a tribe or portion thereof go ga ga over independence to the point of rehilting their traditional swords .


One wonders how thrilled the Sumatran populace as a whole is at being ruled from Jawa anyway .
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.