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Old 8th April 2024, 09:59 PM   #1
urbanspaceman
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Default Spanish or German

I have finally been able to photograph the (punzone?) on the English rapier blade marked Sebastien Hernandes.
I am sure one of you will be able to tell me, from this mark, if the blade is Spanish, or German using a Spanish name for prestige.
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Old 8th April 2024, 11:47 PM   #2
Peter Hudson
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I had to look up Punzone. It means Stamp. Thats the noun anyway... Looking at the stamp Im totally flumoxed but now that I know what it means ... I will see what stamps I can identify... Regards Peter.
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Old 8th April 2024, 11:51 PM   #3
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Default stumped

You're a poetic soul Peter, thank-you.
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Old 9th April 2024, 12:15 AM   #4
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SEE http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...h+Blade+Stamps .....There are clues I suspect in posts 15 and 32.... possibly...Peter.
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Old 9th April 2024, 03:12 AM   #5
Jim McDougall
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Looks like the 'anchor' device typically in fuller on early Spanish blades as would have been on Hernandez blades end of 16th also Tomas Aiala. It seems this one resembles one on a rapier of the Atocha wreck (1622).

Punzone is a makers stamp which usually occurs on the ricasso of Spanish rapier blades, which are recorded in a panel of these from Toledo by Palomares, who compiled these.
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Old 9th April 2024, 10:36 AM   #6
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Default ricasso punzone

Hi Guys. The ricasso within the dish is very heavily coated in an accumulation of years, and quite black. On one side, the fuller continues, but on the other, is it quite flat and unless my eyes deceive me - yet again - there may be something under the deposit.
I am considering how to remove the muck without impacting on the metal: any suggestion born of experience will be gratefully received.
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Old 9th April 2024, 11:19 AM   #7
fernando
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Default Punzón ...

Punzón (singular) Punzones (Plural); a term meaning punch, puncture, pricker, marker.
Here is one of those Punzones de Espadero, a survival from those Toledan glorious days !


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Old 9th April 2024, 01:13 PM   #8
Jim McDougall
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Keith, I wish I had good tips on conservation but I seldom do much cleaning etc except for WD40 to stabiliize and perhaps some very fine steel wool. Easy does it as you dont want to compromise any existing marks. For some reason I thought you had seen the Hernandez punzone at the ricasso as per Palomares.
As mentioned, I have always thought that his punzone was not copied on German blades.

While the Germans did adopt the the multi bar 'anchor' (much like somewhat exaggerated cross of Lorraine) the character of the anchor on this blade seems to me in accord with those on earlier Spanish rapier blades as noted.

For me, everything so far with this blade suggests it is indeed Spanish, and incarnated with an early 17th century English cavalier rapier hilt, as was very much in vogue then, remarkable!
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Old 9th April 2024, 01:52 PM   #9
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Default stamped or stumped

As Fernando remarked earlier in this thread, the image of what I thought was the typical Hernandes punzone was very poor (vendor) and I saw what I wanted to see.
I approached the ricasso inside the dish with some white spirit, as I have found most black discoloration is old preserving oils or waxes - or both - and a lot of the muck did indeed come off; enough to indicate there was no marking beneath it.
The mark I posted earlier today is from the lower end of the fuller (on both sides). I have seen quite a few that are similar, but not one that is an exact match (see pics). That, along with the name, is the only indication of provenance.
ps
I will comment once again on the peculiarity of the Es in the script (example top pic). I have seen them on several swords. They are embellished and flamboyant to the point of obscuring the meaning; this is despite all the other letters being relatively normal (by English standards - I hasten to add).
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