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Old 25th May 2021, 03:24 AM   #1
kahnjar1
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Default Middle Eastern/North African Musket

Just picked this up in a local auction. Unusual in that it has a European style Flintlock rather than the typical Miquelet lock. IMHO the lock is the original as the stock mortice fits it correctly, and the pan lines up with the touch hole.
Total length of the gun is 1700 and the octagonal barrel is 1360 and is approx 16mm bore. The half stock is attached to the barrel with shrunken leather. Nice engraving on the top of the barrel and some on the woodwork. Nice bone inlays a couple of with are missing and need to be replaced.
I am inclined to call this an Algerian gun going by the stock comb shape but any Algerian guns I have seen have had miquelet locks.
By the way there appears to be a rectangle mark inside the lock at the upper middle but I have not been able to read it for now.. need a much stronger glass!!
All comments welcome.
Stu
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Last edited by kahnjar1; 25th May 2021 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 25th May 2021, 06:55 AM   #2
colin henshaw
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Looks a good honest gun, I like it...
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Old 25th May 2021, 09:30 AM   #3
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Hi Stu,

I love it!

You are right most of these features are Algerians.

The copy??? of English lock is something that you can see on the coast, in Northern Morocco and Tunisia.

The ramrod running directy under the barrel without stock is a Tunisian feature.

Because of that and the lock, I think your gun is from the border between Algeria and Tunisa (modern/ colonial borders anyway...)
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Old 25th May 2021, 10:10 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubur View Post
Hi Stu,

I love it!

You are right most of these features are Algerians.

The copy??? of English lock is something that you can see on the coast, in Northern Morocco and Tunisia.

The ramrod running directy under the barrel without stock is a Tunisian feature.

Because of that and the lock, I think your gun is from the border between Algeria and Tunisa (modern/ colonial borders anyway...)
I was thinking Tunisia/Algeria but the European lock threw me off a bit.. This gun was one of two very similar offered at the auction but the other had been originally a Miquelet I think. Here is a pic of the lock area of the other gun, As you can see it has a similar flintlock to mine but at some stage there has been a different lock fitted judging by the damage and ill fitting. Also the top jaw of the cock is missing and there was no rammer. Bit of a mess really.....As a matter of interest the lock shown here has the word "Marseilles" engraved below the hammer.
Stu
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Old 25th May 2021, 01:04 PM   #5
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Marseilles was a port and export center for Levantine locks from North Africa to Turkey.
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Old 25th May 2021, 02:11 PM   #6
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This has many similarities and also a european looking lock.
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Old 25th May 2021, 09:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eftihis View Post
This has many similarities and also a european looking lock.
Hi Eftihis,
Yes I totally agree. Your gun could well be the twin to the one I have. What is you opinion as to origin of the one you show?
Stu
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Old 26th May 2021, 05:07 PM   #8
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Well, for me it is "North African" i cannot pinpoint it more precisely. Also the are was called Barbary and the current state borders did not exist in the past. I was told, because of its long barell with a small caliber that it was made for duck hunting.
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Old 26th May 2021, 08:21 PM   #9
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For duck hunting I would have thought you would use a large bore shotgun, perhaps Muslim practice was different at that time.
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Old 26th May 2021, 09:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eftihis View Post
Well, for me it is "North African" i cannot pinpoint it more precisely. Also the are was called Barbary and the current state borders did not exist in the past. I was told, because of its long barell with a small caliber that it was made for duck hunting.
I agree with the North African atribution, but not sure about the duck hunting. I would perhaps suggest ground game if it is indeed meant as a sporting gun, rather than for combat.
Stu
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Old 27th May 2021, 05:44 PM   #11
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Hi Stu

Nice find. I agree with the Algerian origins. The stock architecture and long, tapered octagon barrel are common to other Algerian long guns. (Although I've seen a couple with octagon to round barrels). And Eftihis's gun looks like a brother to yours.
The half-stock is interesting. The other Algerian guns with the miquelet locks are typically full stocks - although the length of their forearms only travel about 2/3 rds. the distance to the muzzle. And the ramrods are wood. I always thought it would be easy to damage a wood ramrod without the fore end of the stock not traveling full length, or with some other support at the muzzle. But that's how they were built.
The two examples shown here appear to have been made as half-stocks, versus a repair from a broken fore end. Yes, maybe a blend of Algerian and Tunisian styles.
I've seen this style before with the flintlock in place of the common Algerian miquelet lock. A different variation from a different gun shop to suite a local taste I guess.
Here is one I have, although in poor condition as I bought it as a "parts" gun.
The same general stock design. But this one has the so-called 2/3rds. length stock. Just another small variation.

Rick
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Old 27th May 2021, 05:45 PM   #12
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Woops. Forgot the pic......
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Old 27th May 2021, 07:33 PM   #13
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickystl View Post
Woops. Forgot the pic......
Yep the pic looks great!!!
Your comment above that the gun may have at some stage had a longer stock is not likely. The one I bought and the rough one which I did not, both have definitely not had longer woodwork. Kubur places this style as Tunisia/Algeria borders rather than pure Algeria.
Stu
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Old 27th May 2021, 07:45 PM   #14
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Hi Stu

Hmmm. Don't know what happened to the pic ?? I'll try again. Maybe my office laptop won't let me post versus my home laptop (?)

Kubur is probably right. What I like about your's is the butt stock treatment and the leather wrap holding the barrel to the stock. Has a definite tribal look to it.

I'll try the photo later.

Rick
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Old 24th June 2021, 12:00 AM   #15
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Taken a while but have at last enlarged that mark inside the lock. Looks to me as if it is C?R perhaps.
Does anyone recognise this mark?
Stu
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