Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Keris Warung Kopi

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 9th September 2023, 07:38 AM   #211
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,733
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by werecow View Post
I love that keris grip btw. As a kid I often went to the ethnography museum with my parents here in Leiden, and the colorful Indonesian (and particularly Balinese) demon masks and Rangda in particular always creeped me out in a good way. Those creepy lidless eyes, those tusks, and that tongue! I love good horror imagery and monsters of any sort, but I have to admit that western demons don't really compare to the Balinese version.
To quote a dear departed friend where Bali iconography is concerned, "Even the Goodies have teeth"
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2023, 07:39 AM   #212
Rick
Member
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,212
Default

That's a very nice grouping; excellent workmanship!
What or who is the figure on the right side of the image?
Great additions to the thread! Thanks
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2023, 07:42 AM   #213
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,733
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
That's a very nice grouping; excellent workmanship!
What or who is the figure on the right side of the image?
Great additions to the thread! Thanks
Rick, this thread may be of some insight.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27190
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2023, 09:59 AM   #214
JustYS
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post
That's a very nice grouping; excellent workmanship!
What or who is the figure on the right side of the image?
Great additions to the thread! Thanks
Thank you Rick.

Itís a horse.
Attached Images
 
JustYS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2023, 04:22 PM   #215
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,145
Default

A new addition to the collection, a Lombok handle.
Attached Images
     
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2023, 07:08 PM   #216
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 345
Default

Interesting and well done pieces. JustYS and Sajen do you know the approximate age of your examples?

For my edification, Sajen yours is Hanapu? JustYS from left yours are 1. Unknown 2 Vishnu and Guarda 3. Rakshasa 4. Ganesh 5. Unknown I can't see what he is holding for a clue 6. Rangda and a snack. 7. Horse with no visible wings.
Interested Party is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2023, 09:11 PM   #217
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 6,933
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustYS View Post
Pick up couple of Balinese hilts for my small but growing collection.
Itís almost as addictive as KerisÖ..
Nice contemporary carvings Just. Yes, there are some folks who only collect hilts. I can see why it can be addictive.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th September 2023, 10:59 PM   #218
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interested Party View Post
Interesting and well done pieces. JustYS and Sajen do you know the approximate age of your examples?

For my edification, Sajen yours is Hanapu? JustYS from left yours are 1. Unknown 2 Vishnu and Guarda 3. Rakshasa 4. Ganesh 5. Unknown I can't see what he is holding for a clue 6. Rangda and a snack. 7. Horse with no visible wings.
Hello IP,

I can only guess the age of my hilt, it's used and show age, made from buffalo horn. 50 to 100 years? It's a monkey but I don't think that it should represent Hanuman.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2023, 06:51 AM   #219
JustYS
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interested Party View Post
Interesting and well done pieces. JustYS and Sajen do you know the approximate age of your examples?

For my edification, Sajen yours is Hanapu? JustYS from left yours are 1. Unknown 2 Vishnu and Guarda 3. Rakshasa 4. Ganesh 5. Unknown I can't see what he is holding for a clue 6. Rangda and a snack. 7. Horse with no visible wings.
Hi IP,

As David said, mines are mostly contemporary (20th/21st century hilts).

From left to right:
1. Wayang character
2. Vishnu riding Garuda
3. Rakshasa/Demon
4. Ganesha
5. The carver said Prabu (King), could be Rama but not sure
6. Rangda
7. Horse
JustYS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10th September 2023, 09:57 AM   #220
A. G. Maisey
Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,579
Default

I have just finished reading a very good book, it is a translation from French of the ethnographic accounts of Pierre Dubois, Helen Creese, an Australian academic is the author, the title is "Bali in the Early Nineteenth Century".

Much of the content was familiar to me from other reading that I have done, but all the same there was a lot, a real lot, of things I did not know.

The reason why I have mentioned it here is that I now understand why it is that identification of the characters portrayed in Balinese totogan hilts is somewhere between difficult & impossible in many cases. Often even the carvers are not aware of the character they are carving.

A bit peculiar?

Well, in the book I just mentioned I discovered that way back in the early 19th century in Bali, the Brahmins absolutely controlled the depiction of totogan characters, they would provide a carver with a description, a sketch, or a rough example, sometimes an old example, and the carver would carve it to the Brahmin's instructions. They did not know what they were carving, they only knew what the Brahmin client wanted.

Another factor to consider is this:- even if the name of the totogan character has been correctly given, we still do not know exactly who the hilt is supposed to represent, it is very likely to be the grand father or father of somebody.

So it is perhaps best not to get too caught up in IDing Bali hilt characters, in the past, and through to today, it is a guessing game.
A. G. Maisey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.