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Old 3rd February 2011, 10:37 PM   #1
Sajen
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Default KERIS BLADE

Hello,

this keris blade appealed my eyes so I give a bid an win it (maybe I am the only one who like this blade?): http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...AMESINDXX%3AIT

Dapur is jalak ruwuh (I think), pamor I can't name. Blade seems in fairly good condition and I think by time I will find a good sarung for it.

What do you think, did I good or was it a mistake to buy it?

Thank you,

Detlef
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Old 3rd February 2011, 11:13 PM   #2
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A handsome wilah and the pamor seems quite well controlled from what I can see .
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Old 3rd February 2011, 11:23 PM   #3
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It looks like a handsome blade that will clean up and stain nicely i would image. Some people shy away from auctions where the sheaths are so beyond repair...unless you live in Jawa where one can more readily be made. But frankly if i had seen this auction i might have bid as well. Looks like you made a good deal to me...
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Old 4th February 2011, 04:34 AM   #4
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Oh, and it looks like it could be a proud blade after it is restored! Diamond in the rocks!
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Old 4th February 2011, 05:50 AM   #5
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Good!
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Old 4th February 2011, 03:54 PM   #6
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Thank you very much gentlemen!
The game on e-bay is sometimes very confusing for me.
I was really surprised that nobody else bid on this one.
Someone in the position to determine the origin of this blade?

Best regards,

Detlef
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Old 4th February 2011, 04:06 PM   #7
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Nice strong blade , this is how i like them .

I think after a nice bath it come,s out nice .
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Old 5th February 2011, 11:28 AM   #8
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Yesterday I won a nice sheath by ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWNX%3AIT

I hope that I can use it for the keris. Here the pictures from the seller.
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Old 5th February 2011, 09:31 PM   #9
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If I am getting a distortion free image on my screen, this is a Surakarta blade by a maker based outside the Karaton.

Like I said:- good!
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Old 6th February 2011, 02:53 AM   #10
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Maybe this blade deserves a dress commissioned for it, rather than a refitted sheath.
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Old 12th February 2011, 03:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey
If I am getting a distortion free image on my screen, this is a Surakarta blade by a maker based outside the Karaton.

Like I said:- good!
Thank you very much Alan!

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 12th February 2011, 03:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BluErf
Maybe this blade deserves a dress commissioned for it, rather than a refitted sheath.
Surely you are correct by this but in the moment I don't have the chance to let work one for the blade. Let us see what I can do for the moment with a refitted sheath.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 29th October 2011, 08:24 PM   #13
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Here now the stained blade with a refitted old sarung, not a solution for aeons but for the moment the blade have a house.
Is someone able to name the pamor?

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 30th October 2011, 04:31 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=Sajen]Is someone able to name the pamor?



Ngulit Semangka ?
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Old 30th October 2011, 05:09 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=GIO]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Is someone able to name the pamor?
Ngulit Semangka ?
Thank you, my first impression as well but maybe it's more specific?

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 30th October 2011, 10:50 PM   #16
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I'd call it wos wutah, and I believe most people I know in Solo would say the same.

All these random pamors can be classified and classified and classified again.

You can come up with any number of names for wos wutah, and I've noticed that in recent years we seem to have a lot more names to choose from.

I wouldn't give it as ngulit semangko because it is just not coarse enough --- that's the only difference between ngulit semangko and wos wutah:- the number of layers, they're both made in the same way.
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Old 31st October 2011, 07:42 AM   #17
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Thank you Alan,

for myself is wos wutah entirely ok. The pamor is nice and well controlled so it's equal which name it has.

Regards,

Detlef
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Old 1st November 2011, 07:05 PM   #18
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Sajen, sorry for the wrong appreciation: I am not a great expert.
The keris is really nice, and the etching is very good.
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Old 2nd November 2011, 06:50 AM   #19
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This keris looks very well made, but I'll need to ask, especially to Alan.

What are the characteristics of a keris made inside the kraton? If there is any pic of kraton keris of similar dapur / pamor / tangguh, I would really like to see it for camparison. Thanking you in advance.
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Old 2nd November 2011, 07:02 AM   #20
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I have another keris of different dapur, and different tangguh, claimed by the seller as a kraton piece. unfortunately its not of Surakarta Hadiningrat. My piece was claimed to be of Sri Manganti Hall, Ngayogyakarta Hadiningrat during HBV era.

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Old 2nd November 2011, 08:27 AM   #21
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This is a core question, and is both the easiest and the most difficult question to answer.

The easy answer is that a keris made by a karaton mpu will be of superior workmanship.

But does this mean every keris of superior workmanship is going to be the product of a karaton mpu?

No, it does not.

What it means is that any keris that is claimed as being the work of a karaton empu should be of superior workmanship.

This then means that it should follow exactly the style for the period and it then follows that it should be able to be identified as being the work of a particular maker.

We are now into the realm of tangguh, and what that means is that any number of people can give any number of opinions, some of which might be able to be accepted, some of which might not be able to be accepted.

It makes it a little bit easier if it is a more recent blade, and it carries a ron dha, but even then, all opinions are open to question.

If one can obtain the opinions of several people, preferably people who do not belong to the same keris group, and those opinions agree, then there is a good chance that the opinions will be correct.

In short, there is no easy way to answer this question adequately.
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Old 3rd November 2011, 03:19 AM   #22
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Thank you Alan.

from the historical perspective, many keraton empu started off as an apprentice / panjak of the empu who served in the kraton. Legends however, mention that best empu could be from ndheso / humble working place, such as the case of Empu Gandring, Jaka Sura, Sombro and many more. It is also a fact, some kraton empus also relinguished their kraton association and became ascetic in the rural area, Mpu umyang being the case here.

Does this mean, those originally from Kraton, when they left the service and became empu ndheso, they no longer produce keris of kraton's quatlity and pakem?
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Old 3rd November 2011, 04:32 AM   #23
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Penangsang, in this life there is one thing that is almost universally true:-

you mostly get what you pay for.

When a man is working under the aegis of a karaton, or even a lord of lower degree, his objective would have been to produce the very best he was capable of, and he was maintained at a level that permitted this.

Now, if a person is sufficiently relaxed to leave behind the security of life under the patronage of a lord, then he needs to make his own way, and his time assumes a different value.

I think that we can assume that if this man was working for a bag of rice, the keris would be worth a bag of rice, on the other hand, if he was working for a brace of kerbau, the keris value would correspond to this.

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Old 22nd November 2011, 03:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sajen
Here now the stained blade with a refitted old sarung, not a solution for aeons but for the moment the blade have a house.
Is someone able to name the pamor?

Regards,

Detlef
I would say this keris has "kulit semongko" pamor.
you have a good taste in "sandangan".
I'm wondering if you also has jogja sandangan in your inventory.
here at my place, we would dress this keris in jogjakarta dress.
that's from my point of view though.
the style of the blade seem to be aroud jogjakarta.
but it all the matter of taste and personal judgement.
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Old 26th November 2011, 04:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrylaki
I would say this keris has "kulit semongko" pamor.
you have a good taste in "sandangan".
I'm wondering if you also has jogja sandangan in your inventory.
here at my place, we would dress this keris in jogjakarta dress.
that's from my point of view though.
the style of the blade seem to be aroud jogjakarta.
but it all the matter of taste and personal judgement.

Thank you Ferry,

but I choose this sarung with the help of an indonesian friend after the advise from Alan (see post 9). The blade is big and heavy so it seems in my eyes very plausible that it is a Solo blade.

Thank you again and regards,

Detlef
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Old 26th November 2011, 10:10 PM   #26
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This keris possesses a number of features which permit the classification of Surakarta. The primary indicators in this case are the ron dha and the strong ada-ada.

The posted images, from the top, show ron dha from a tombak that is attributed to Empu Jayasukadgo, a keris made by Pandai Keris Yantono, and a drawing, by Empu Suparman, of the classic Surakarta ron dha.

Also shown is a drawing by Djeno Harumbrojo of his interpretation of the Yogyakarta ron dha.

The classic HB (Yogya) keris style broadly follows the Mataram form, and the classic Yogyakarta ron dha also echoes this form.

That, at least, is what I have been taught. Others may hold different opinions, and when all is said and done, this identification of blade origin is based upon opinion.
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Old 27th November 2011, 12:35 PM   #27
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Here a close up of the ron dha of my blade for comparison.
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Old 27th November 2011, 06:25 PM   #28
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Thank you Detlef, but in fact your couple of shots in post one give a more clear impression of the critical area than do these close ups.The close ups are bigger, but the shots have been taken at an angle to the ron dha itself.

If you have a copy of "Keris Jawa", there are a number of examples of the ron dha interpretation of various makers shown in that.

Any ron dha can vary within its classification and even from time to time by the same maker, however, what is important from the perspective of establishing a supportable tangguh is that the overall form of the tangguh cannot be attributed to a classification other than the one proposed.

In my opinion, the overall form of the ron dha on your keris cannot be aligned to any of the other major classifications.

If the form of the HB keris is a latter day echo of the Mataram keris form, the blumbangan should be square; in the photos you have provided of your keris, the blumbangan appears to me to be elongated, like a brick standing on its end (boto adeg). It is possible that this effect could be caused by the angle at which the photo was taken, and very often, in blades that are less than premium, it is a little difficult to decide if the blumbangan is square or boto adeg.

The boto adeg blumbangan is a primary identifier of a Surakarta keris.

The overall visual impression (pawakan) of this keris is of a robust, forceful, strong keris, it does lack the defined chest and back of the classic Surakarta form, but as I have said, this is not a premium quality keris, it is a keris of the common man. But it is a strong, brave keris. The typical low to medium quality Yogya keris does not present this forceful, aggressive persona.

It is always possible that if I had this keris in my hand I could change my mind, but based upon what I believe I can see in these photos, it is simply not possible for me to support any classification other Surakarta, however, most definitely not Surakarta of premium quality.
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Old 27th November 2011, 06:47 PM   #29
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Thank you again Alan,

hope and think that your further explanations will help me and others get a deeper understanding of the attribution of keris blades.

Regards,

Detlef
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