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Old 17th May 2021, 01:32 AM   #61
JoeCanada42
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I no longer believe this one is for sale so ill post some picks. it is the only other sword apart from the one in the YouTube video, that is similar to mine. until recently it was listed with augeo gallery and in 2016 it looks like it was listed with helios, they call it 19c. it has the same scabbard fittings and the guard but without buddha and the different pommel, the blade also looks newer. and is longer.
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Old 17th May 2021, 01:35 AM   #62
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id love to know what it says, I notice the pommel is one solid piece with the ferrule, where as my Jian is missing the pommel ferrule
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Old 18th May 2021, 12:43 AM   #63
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These are the opening lines from "Song of the Precious Sword" 宝剑篇 by poet Li Qiao 李 嶠 (654? -714?), included in a collection compiled by another poet of the Tang Dynasty, Cui Rong 崔 融 (653-706).
Lines are broken, missing characters are enclosed in square brackets, line-by-line according to a modern Chinese source.

吴山开,
越溪涸,
三金合冶[成宝锷]。
淬绿水,
鉴红云,
五彩焰起[光氛氲]。

My translation is probably not very good - it is a complex poetic text filled with ancient symbols.
"Mount Wushan opened,
The stormy stream falling [from her] has dried up,
Three metals combined in an alloy [turned into a precious [double-edged] blade].
Tempered in crystal clear water
In the Hongyun (Red Cloud) vessel,
From the five-colored flame (magical spiritual power) [a brilliance of courage (prosperity)] appears".

Mount Wushan is located in Shaanxi Province. Hongyun may be the name of the mountain, or perhaps a proper name, it is not clear. The stormy stream falling from the mountains may be an allusion to the legendary beauty Xi Shi "destroying kingdoms".
The lines engraved on the blade are interrupted - the person who took the sword in hand had to finish them from memory. This is such a graceful Chinese game of education and erudition, widespread among scientists and officials. On this basis, we can confidently assume that the sword was unlikely to belong to a military man or a nouveau riche merchant.
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Old 18th May 2021, 01:51 PM   #64
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Thank You very much Ren Ren for the great assistance, what a cool translation, I wonder about the alloy.
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Old 18th May 2021, 02:57 PM   #65
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Yes, that is also a new sword. The yellow orange ray skin is a give away, but also everything else.

Do you see that line running lengthwise? That is a fake forging error. It is supposed to mark where the sanmai edge and body meet. A cold shut, or other similar forging error is the kind of thing that you should look for in an antique, but that one is huge and ugly. It is there to convince the unwary that the blade is sanmai, but is actually a sign saying "stay away".

Take some time to acquaint yourself with antiques in general. Unfortunately Chinese antiques are one of the worst places to start. Almost every Chinese antique you see will be a recent reproduction, and that includes swords. Reproductions from the 1990s are starting to acquire a little age, but they are still reproductions.

To see pictures of actual antiques, you need to go to the websites of reputable dealers who specialize in Chinese swords. You can also look at pictures posted in these discussion groups, if the community opinion supports the posted example as an original.

If you look elsewhere for examples of reproductions listed as antiques, you will find them.

To see a good variety of reproductions, simply look up "antique Chinese sword" on eBay, and look at full length jian with complete fittings.

Every single one is less than forty years old.
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Old 18th May 2021, 03:25 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh stout View Post
Yes, that is also a new sword. The yellow orange ray skin is a give away, but also everything else.

Do you see that line running lengthwise? That is a fake forging error. It is supposed to mark where the sanmai edge and body meet. A cold shut, or other similar forging error is the kind of thing that you should look for in an antique, but that one is huge and ugly. It is there to convince the unwary that the blade is sanmai, but is actually a sign saying "stay away".

Take some time to acquaint yourself with antiques in general. Unfortunately Chinese antiques are one of the worst places to start. Almost every Chinese antique you see will be a recent reproduction, and that includes swords. Reproductions from the 1990s are starting to acquire a little age, but they are still reproductions.

To see pictures of actual antiques, you need to go to the websites of reputable dealers who specialize in Chinese swords. You can also look at pictures posted in these discussion groups, if the community opinion supports the posted example as an original.

If you look elsewhere for examples of reproductions listed as antiques, you will find them.

To see a good variety of reproductions, simply look up "antique Chinese sword" on eBay, and look at full length jian with complete fittings.

Every single one is less than forty years old.
Exactly this, there are a number of excellent collections available online from museums like the MET as Philip I believe has already mentioned in this thread, which are a much better starting point. Unfortunately even large auction houses which maybe have realized high prices are not even a good indicator of authenticity.
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Old 18th May 2021, 09:04 PM   #67
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Here are two more photos of the same blade. I must admit that I like him.
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Old 18th May 2021, 10:44 PM   #68
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wow , Ren Ren, very nice photos, where did u get them?,, or? are you actually owner ???
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Old 18th May 2021, 11:45 PM   #69
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This sword was discussed at the Russian Weapons Forum a year and a half ago. The discussion was heated and the opinions of the judges were divided

P.S. I don't know if the rules allow direct links to other forums?
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Old 20th May 2021, 05:35 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josh stout View Post
Yes, that is also a new sword. The yellow orange ray skin is a give away, but also everything else.
Excellent points in your post, Josh. I'd like to remark on the one highlighted observation above. Not only the color gives the rayskin away, but the manner in which it is finished is a giveaway as well.

Antique jian with rayskin grips are generally late, from the end of the Qing to the early Republic, although there are exceptions of course. The thing to remember, though, is that in the case of bona fide antiques (and I would consider swords made in traditional style and manner in, say, the 1920s to be antiques since they are part of a continuous tradition going well back into the imperial age), the rayskin on the scabbard is invariably polished, and that on the grip is left au naturel , i.e. in the "bumpy" state that it was in on the live fish, and typically in the natural color as well.

I have seen a few old kid's size swords (very much scaled down in all dimensions proportionately) with polished and colored rayskin to match on grip and scabbard, but never on a full-sized adult version.

I agree with your comments on the one posted previously on this thread. Thanks much for sharing your knowledge and observations as well.
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