Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > European Armoury

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 18th July 2024, 09:16 PM   #1
Bryce
Member
 
Bryce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 184
Default Giant British 1788 Light Cavalry Sabre

G'day Guys,

Another interesting sword joined my collection recently. It is a British 1788 pattern, light cavalry officer's sabre, but there is nothing "light" about it. It is a beast of a sword and perhaps the biggest single handed British service sword I have ever seen. The blade is 4.8cm wide at the ricasso and 94cm long. It is signed by the maker John Knubley and can be dated to 1792-5. It must have been custom made for a guy who would have been considered a "giant" for the time. The other interesting feature is the "attack hilt", which has an additional two bars which can be folded out to provide better hand protection. Here it is next to a regulation 1796 pattern light cavalry troopers' sabre for comparison.

Cheers,

Bryce
Attached Images
  
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th July 2024, 10:41 PM   #2
Radboud
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 261
Default

Fantastic sword Bryce, these 1788 officer swords with the rotating guards (I refuse to use 'Attack hilt' ) are really interesting swords and one I'd love to have an example of.

Do you have any photos of the guard mechanism?
Radboud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th July 2024, 12:44 AM   #3
Bryce
Member
 
Bryce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 184
Default

G'day Bas,
Unfortunately the attack hilt mechanism seems to be missing the part which keeps the bars open. I need to look at other examples to find out what is missing.
Cheers,
Bryce
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd August 2024, 01:17 PM   #4
awdaniec666
Member
 
awdaniec666's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 162
Default

It doesn´t look like a British pattern 1788 LC to me. A lot of regions used that "Stirrup hilt" and foldable guards. And the point of patterns is the similarity between individual specimen which I cannot see here in comparison to the "classic 1788".
Attached Images
 
awdaniec666 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2024, 04:53 AM   #5
Bryce
Member
 
Bryce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Queensland, Australia
Posts: 184
Default

G'day Awdaniec666,
There is a lot of variation between examples of British 1788 light cavalry swords, particularly between different makers. My sword is a custom made sword for an officer, rather than a regulation sword for a trooper. The blade and grip are both much larger than regulation and the regulations also didn't include a folding "attack hilt". There is no doubt that it is British made rather than continental and it can be positively dated to 1792-5, but I agree that it is not a "typical" 1788.
Cheers,
Bryce
Attached Images
 
Bryce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th August 2024, 02:28 PM   #6
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 9,924
Default

Interesting discussion on these late 18th century British cavalry sabers, and MOST interesting example being of such notably large size.
I am wondering on the folding knuckle guard feature, and why the term 'attack hilt' is used (as noted). By its design it is of course a 'guard' for the hand.

I am also wondering if this folding type feature was taken from a French innovation (I think I saw this mentioned in Dellar) of the period.
While it seems the so called M1788 sabers followed a pretty standard hilt pattern, as seen in the sword exercises manual of the 1790s illustrations, there were it seems some nuances in the hilts.

One thing I noticed, which may be moot, is that James Wooley hilts seemed to follow more of a French character in the pommel has a domed effect and the langets are of elliptical shape. With Thomas Gill, his hilts were distinctly Germanic with squared elongated langets and the flat top pommel cap.

Naturally in the pre regulation cavalry hilt situation of the time, there would be variations by makers producing hilts, it would seem more prevalent with officers swords as these were essentially privately commissioned. In my view,it seems even the M1796 light cavalry patterns there was a degree of variation. I recall in my early days of collecting trying to find variant patterns of 1796 hilts. A friend in Denmark focused on this same topic wrote an article on this (I cant find it as yet, auughh!) showing variant hilts.
Jim McDougall is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.