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Old 31st May 2023, 01:55 PM   #1
SidJ
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Default Keris for consideration

Heres a Bugis keris for comment. Blade has interesting carvings including the notch under the trunk. The texture is like very rough sandpaper. The pamor I am not sure about. Dress is nice with chatoyant timber. Thoughts on quality age etc welcome.
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Old 31st May 2023, 03:10 PM   #2
milandro
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I think this is a very nice kris, I have a similar blade and , to me, this is a Bengo Segodo pamor (mine has pretty much the same). I replaced the hilt and the selut . Can't show it because it is for sale at the moment.
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Old 31st May 2023, 04:17 PM   #3
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Sheath and hilt cup are recent work, hilt could be antique.

Blade could be old or recent. It looks like an older South Sulawesi or more likely Sumbawa blade, but there is at least one detail which isn't right with the Gonjo for Keris with this provenance and age.
If the blade is old, Gonjo looks like a relatively recent replacement.
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Old 1st June 2023, 01:12 AM   #4
A. G. Maisey
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Gustav, your comments on this keris interest me, you are perhaps aware that I do not pretend to have any in depth knowledge of this keris form, but I am always open to knowledge that I do not have.

Could you please explain what about this keris causes you to believe that the gonjo is a replacement, and that the wrongko & "hilt cup", & perhaps the blade itself, are recent ?

Also, could you please put the idea of "recent" into a time frame? Not precise, just approximate, for example, post 1950, pre-WWII, circa 1900, second half 19th century? Just a broad approximation.

Thank you.
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Old 1st June 2023, 11:34 AM   #5
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Alan, I know you don't have any interest in Keris from that region, so your interest in this particular case is likely having another reason, different from the gathering of information. Well, fair enough.

Regarding the "wrongko" - carving of Sampir is not old style, the overall form is of course right, but there are details, which are not done in the way they were done on antique examples.

Buntut is an recent form, such form simply doesn't exist on antique examples. It also looks like having been made from soft wood, which isn't the traditional choice for Buntut.

Batang is the only part of this example, which looks ok (for a pre-WWII sheath).

The "hilt cup" (I know, in that place you wanted read the magic word Kili-Kili) is a recent, simplifyed version of an older form. This version isn't older then 25-30 years.

As I wrote, the blade likely is antique, I have my doubts about Gonjo. I could be wrong with these doubts, to confirm I would need to see the blade in person.

With recent I meen post-Kamardhikan.
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Old 1st June 2023, 01:24 PM   #6
SidJ
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Default More images

More images attached. There is a rougher part at the bottom edge of the pointed end of the ganja. Perhaps an impact there caused this roughness? It feels fresh.
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Old 1st June 2023, 01:29 PM   #7
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The buntut got me excited initially as I thought it might be rhino horn. It has a similar look and end grain. But its wood.
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Old 3rd June 2023, 08:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Regarding the "wrongko" - carving of Sampir is not old style, the overall form is of course right, but there are details, which are not done in the way they were done on antique examples.

Buntut is an recent form, such form simply doesn't exist on antique examples. It also looks like having been made from soft wood, which isn't the traditional choice for Buntut.

Batang is the only part of this example, which looks ok (for a pre-WWII sheath).

<snip>

With recent I meen post-Kamardhikan.
I assume "post-Kamardhikan" should just read "Kamardhikan" instead.

I pretty much agree with Gustav and even would go so far to suggest that the complete scabbard looks to be of a post-WWII origin and, if not of recent production, possibly received an aggressive refurbishment.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 3rd June 2023, 06:38 AM   #9
Gavin Nugent
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This image attached was bought home in 1938 after the owners travels through Timor, Borneo and the surrounds... comparatively speaking it might place your cup in the same period or decade/s later, I do not know for certain
??
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Old 3rd June 2023, 07:52 AM   #10
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Hello Gavin,

Your selut is a very different type from the one discussed here.

There sure are antique examples pretty close to the one shown by the OP. This one seems to be a modern copy of lower quality though.

Regards,
Kai
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Old 4th June 2023, 05:00 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai View Post
Hello Gavin,

Your selut is a very different type from the one discussed here.

There sure are antique examples pretty close to the one shown by the OP. This one seems to be a modern copy of lower quality though.

Regards,
Kai
I can appreciate that Kai.

It is presented to portray a level of craftsmanship related to a known time stamp.
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