Ethnographic Arms & Armour

Ethnographic Arms & Armour (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/index.php)
-   Ethnographic Weapons (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Elegant all steel Miqulet Jezail for comment (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25708)

Mel H 6th March 2020 06:15 PM

Elegant all steel Miqulet Jezail for comment
 
3 Attachment(s)
Lucky enough to find an attic fresh, untouched North African? Jezail this morning.
It's quite an elegant example with a slender stock but the thing that intrigues me most is that the entire construction is steel, apart from three inches or so, of wood set in at the base of the stock where it has some applied decoration. The frizzen looks as though it has at some time been re-lined, suggesting a fair bit of use in its lifetime. I think I can see some stamped markings on top of the breech but have not yet undertaken any cleaning other than a good dusting with compressed air.
I'll get round to some sympathetic restoration when my workshop gets a little warmer.
I've taken a few photo's and would welcome any comments.

Mel.

TVV 6th March 2020 06:28 PM

Your gun is actually Balkan, mostly associated with Albania, though it was used throughout the Peninsula. Nice gun, congratulations.

Teodor

Kubur 6th March 2020 06:41 PM

I agree this time
:)
It's a Tanchika from Albania and / or Bosnia.
Look on the forum you will find plenty.
A Jezail is from Afghanistan
and a Moukhala for North Africa.
:shrug:

STU
Have you seen the rings, one on each side, it seems to be standard...

Mel H 6th March 2020 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV
Your gun is actually Balkan, mostly associated with Albania, though it was used throughout the Peninsula. Nice gun, congratulations.

Teodor

Thank you for a good start Teodor, that's given me a good starting point and I've done some looking, the name Tancica has appeared, does that apply here?

EDIT

I see that my question has been answered before I asked it.

Thank you Kubur.

qusko 6th March 2020 11:42 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

STU
Have you seen the rings, one on each side, it seems to be standard...

Hi Kubur, Stu,

Ring (in the middle of barrel) in this example of tanchika seems to be original, but maybe more preference of an owner. Usually both rings were on the same side. Attaching some example.

Mel H 7th March 2020 02:22 PM

Looking at the example that I have, the ring near the centre of the barrel is fitted in such a simple manner that it could be easily changed to the other side if desired.

Kubur 7th March 2020 07:10 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi
Here is mine and rings are the same side...

kahnjar1 8th March 2020 12:28 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I would point out that the issue of ring placement originated on the thread of the Boyliya gun http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25695, not this one re the Tanchika.
As you will see if you refer to the thread above, the issue of the placement has been clarified due to my incorrect observance of the pic which was quite dark. Both rings are in fact on the same side.
The comment placed here however is quite correct in that the ring fitment on Tanchika seems to be able to be fitted either side, but most have them on the same side.
Pic attached showing Tanchika "in action".
Stu

kahnjar1 8th March 2020 01:22 AM

2 Attachment(s)
....and also a pic of my Tanchika.
Stu

rickystl 8th March 2020 06:49 PM

Hi Mel

Nice find. Yes, that one should clean up nicely. The front sling ring should be mounted on the left side. My reasoning I posted on the Boyliya Thread that Stu linked to above. But easy enough to reposition it during the cleaning process.
I too have a Tanchika in "attic" condition. I've never attempted to clean it since it's in 100% complete, unmolested condition. Also since I own 3 others. LOL But if it were my only piece, I too would clean it.
You will likely find the stock is mostly wood covered with metal sheathing.
Two things I notice with your gun: The barrel bands look as though they may be replacements (period?). But this would be common. Also, I notice the barrel tang screw looks to be a modern wood screw replacement (?) and threaded in from the top. Originally, the barrel tang screws were mounted from the bottom behind the trigger, inside the trigger guard and threaded into the barrel tang. If you look behind the trigger you will likely find the head of a screw or maybe just a hole. My guess is that the original screw became cross threaded or broke at some point and the barrel was reattached using a simple wood screw from the top. You can't completely remove the original screw from the bottom without removing the trigger guard, which is nailed to the stock instead of being set with screws. But the original tang screw from the bottom only needed to be loosened a small amount to separate it from the barrel tang itself. So the original screw never needed to come completely out anyway.The barrel tang screw mounting from the bottom of the stock and threaded into the tang is common with all Balkan style guns. But mounting the screw inside the trigger guard is strange to me. But it is common to every Albanian musket and pistol I have seen.
So you may want to look out for this while disassembling the gun for cleaning.

Rick

Mel H 12th March 2020 05:19 PM

Thanks for your thoughts and advice Rick, I'll keep it in mind when I get round to giving it a bit of attention. I won't be doing much more than a general 'tidy up' with some fine steel wool and wax.
Mel.

rickystl 16th March 2020 07:05 AM

Hi Mel

Yes, that's all you really need in this case. Some oooo steel wool and oil - and a few shop towels LOL And taking the lock and barrel off for cleaning will make the job easier and a better outcome. Don't forget to post "after" photos.

Rick

Mel H 16th March 2020 04:36 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi Rick, It may be a while before I get this project started, there's a bit of a queue at the moment. Just to keep you interested, I've included a before and after of a rather nice Moroccan snaphaunce that I found a while since.
Mel.

rickystl 21st March 2020 04:05 PM

Hi Mel

Ohhh.....nice clean up on that Moroccan lock. You just never know what you will find underneath rust. LOL

Rick

Mel H 21st March 2020 06:36 PM

Thanks Rick. Even though this is something of a departure from my usual European collecting habits. I'm pleased with it. I have another snaphaunce from the same source that's included in the aforementioned queue, it has an interesting Five Foot Four Inch (162cm) barrel.

Philip 29th March 2020 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl
Hi Mel

Originally, the barrel tang screws were mounted from the bottom ....The barrel tang screw mounting from the bottom of the stock and threaded into the tang is common with all Balkan style guns. But mounting the screw inside the trigger guard is strange to me. But it is common to every Albanian musket and pistol I have seen.
So you may want to look out for this while disassembling the gun for cleaning.

Rick

Tang screws threaded into the tang itself, and with heads on the bottom, are the norm for Italian and Spanish guns pre-1700. And miquelet lock firearms in the Balkans are based on weapons originally exported to the Balkans from those countries beginning in the first half of the 17th century.

However the location of the screw heads is outside the trigger guard, ahead of it, on the European prototypes. I can't explain the odd position of the screw on Albanian guns. Since you shoot a lot of your guns, do you think this design was dictated by a desire for a certain balance, or length of pull in the case of a shoulder-fired weapon such as a musket?

Philip 29th March 2020 07:16 AM

European antecedent: ring swivels
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is an early miquelet-lock gun, ca 1630, fitted-up in Brescia (in Lombardy, northern Italy) in local style of the era, using an imported Ottoman barrel. The bulge on the bottom of the stock ahead of the angular trigger guard is a holdover from wheellock guns, here superfluous considering the shape of a miquelet lock.

Seen here on the left side are a pair of ring swivels for the sling. The buttstock profile is similar to that seen on a type of Balkan gun, common during the 18th-19th centuries, called a dzeferdar.

Note also that the barrel is affixed to the forestock by pins running through tenons dovetailed on the underside of the barrel, in a manner common to most European long guns of the era. This, as opposed to the use of capucines or barrel-bands characteristic of later Oriental weapons.

Philip 29th March 2020 07:41 AM

European antecedent -- miquelet lock
 
1 Attachment(s)
The lock on the gun posted previously. Ca. 1630, it is a very early Italian interpretation of an already-mature Spanish design. The peculiar outline of the bottom of the lock plate, with a bulging profile, is a stylistic nod to the shape of the wheellock plate which has to widen to accommodate the wheel and its internal fixtures -- the firearms industry in Brescia was still heavily involved in producing wheellocks for both the military and civilian markets at the time. So this particular lock may be regarded as transitional, in addition to being an antecedent to characteristic styles produced in Eastern countries.

Points of commonality with later Balkan versions of the miquelet lock are:
1. The shape of the cock neck and top jaw, especially the posterior slope of the latter.
2. The horizontal stabilizing bridge or bridle connecting the priming-pan with the cock pivot screw. This feature became a characteristic of virtually all miquelets produced in the Balkans, Levant, and the Ottoman and Persian empires down to the advent of percussion systems in the 1800s.. This bridge is a rarity on European-made miquelets whether Spanish, Italian, or German copies of same. It was probably necessitated on early locks by the excessively stiff mainspring; the refinements to the mechanism that soon developed in Europe resulted in a more robust vertical cock bridle (connecting to the bottom edge of the lock plate) and increased efficiency using a lighter spring.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:05 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.