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-   -   Long Glat (?) mandau with questions (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=27432)

Sajen 10th November 2021 07:58 PM

Long Glat (?) mandau with questions
 
8 Attachment(s)
I received this mandau yesterday, I guess that it is a Long Glat mandau.
Most of the hair at the nose is lost, the handle binding is glued at the wrong position, the resin "ferrule" is missing as well the ring at the scabbard mouth. And the blade is varnished with some sort of clear finish.
The concave/convex simple blade is marked at two places, is it a sign of more recent manufaktur? I ask because handle and scabbard shows nice patination.
Is my attribution correct? Age? Any other comments? ;)

Sajen 13th November 2021 12:45 PM

Nobody??

Battara 13th November 2021 06:54 PM

On the hilt I see leeches and stylized asos.

Everything looks to be from the mid-19c. I find it fascinating that the European blade has an Arabic stamping on it. A maker's mark?

Battara 13th November 2021 06:56 PM

On the hilt I see leeches and stylized asos.

Everything looks to be from the mid-19c. I find it fascinating that the European blade has an Arabic stamping on it. A maker's mark?

Could the missing ring be woven rattan or even silver instead resin?

Bob A 14th November 2021 01:49 AM

As you've indicated you desire comment, I'm pleased to oblige.

I like everything about the mandau very much, except the blade, which is of course the absolute heart of the thing.

While the blade is happily curious, with its cross-cultural markings, none of which arise from its native culture, it is otherwise jarring, set as it is in the midst of its fine furniture. I could provide a few similes to demonstrate verbally the inherent incongruity, but they would seem insulting, and I do not wish to insult either the weapon or its owner. Actually, the curiosity factor serves in large extent to override the feeling of its being somehow out of place. Anomalies are often fascinating, and sometimes instructive.

Sajen 14th November 2021 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara (Post 267697)
On the hilt I see leeches and stylized asos.

Everything looks to be from the mid-19c. I find it fascinating that the European blade has an Arabic stamping on it. A maker's mark?

Could the missing ring be woven rattan or even silver instead resin?

Hi Jose,

First, thank you for the start! ;) Agree with you about the age of this piece. I don't think that it's a European blade but European steel which get used.
The Arabic mark is a mystery to me, maybe an Arabic blacksmith?
Possible that there is moore missing from the weaving or a silver ring, who knows?

Regards,
Detlef

CharlesS 14th November 2021 12:02 PM

I really like the hilt carving. I am mystified by the marks. Have you tried asking the "Borneo boys" on the Borneo FaceBook page?

Sajen 14th November 2021 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob A (Post 267703)
As you've indicated you desire comment, I'm pleased to oblige.

I like everything about the mandau very much, except the blade, which is of course the absolute heart of the thing.

While the blade is happily curious, with its cross-cultural markings, none of which arise from its native culture, it is otherwise jarring, set as it is in the midst of its fine furniture. I could provide a few similes to demonstrate verbally the inherent incongruity, but they would seem insulting, and I do not wish to insult either the weapon or its owner. Actually, the curiosity factor serves in large extent to override the feeling of its being somehow out of place. Anomalies are often fascinating, and sometimes instructive.

Hello Bob,

Yes, the blade is a mystery to me as well but there will be an explanation for it. I guess that the European stamp is from the used steel whatever was used. And the Arabic stamp will be from the blacksmith, just my guess.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen 14th November 2021 01:02 PM

11 Attachment(s)
I was able to remove the varnish with nail varnish remover from my wife! :D
And I have removed the surface rust underneath. The blade shows scratches either from the original finish or from an unprofessional cleaning from a former owner. :shrug:
Here are some new pictures by daylight. Is someone able to translate the Arabic stamp?

Sajen 14th November 2021 01:04 PM

3 Attachment(s)
And a few pictures from the scabbard.

Green 15th November 2021 01:43 PM

love the hilt and the scabbard has lovely tempusar too!
the arabic script pic is upside down. It is pronounced " Boos - re" (Busri)

Probaby a person's name although a more common one is BASRI.

kai 15th November 2021 11:14 PM

Thanks, Nik!

The double mark is weird. In the coastal communities, there certainly may have been some Islamic bladesmiths venturing into forging such blades - however, marking the blades in this fashion seems like quite a western and/or late influence...

The western mark seems most like a remnant already present from the raw material. Once "modern" western steel became available/affordable, it quickly became the preferred material for tools due to its reliability. The relatively plain look of this mandau blade may support such a utilitarian notion for a real user blade rather than something focusing on ceremonial use.

Regards,
Kai

kai 15th November 2021 11:51 PM

Hello Detlef,

Thanks for posting - that's an interesting riddle!


Quote:

I guess that it is a Long Glat mandau.
I assume you base this attribution on the hilt only? Nice carving and age!


The Long Glat were one of the last groups to perform traditional high-quality bladesmithing into the 20th century. Even if we assume this blade to be a functional user made from precious foreign steel without bells and whistles, I don't see any of the typical Long Glat features here. High quality Long Glat blades got traded pretty much over all of Borneo - maybe this is a trade from a coastal area though?


How well does the blade fit the scabbard? Nice, old scabbard with worn knots - a large bone plate of exuberant form missing at the damaged foot. Belt also looks genuinely old (and broken); less sure about the pouch.

Regards,
Kai

Sajen 26th December 2021 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green (Post 267738)
love the hilt and the scabbard has lovely tempusar too!
the arabic script pic is upside down. It is pronounced " Boos - re" (Busri)

Probaby a person's name although a more common one is BASRI.

Thank you Nik,

Sorry for my very late reply, I was very busy by work the last weeks. :o

Here the inscription in correct view. And yes, I like the hilt and scabbard also.

Regards,
Detlef

Sajen 26th December 2021 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai (Post 267758)
Thanks for posting - that's an interesting riddle!

Hello Kai,

My pleasure! ;) And yes, it's a riddle to me as well!



Quote:

Originally Posted by kai (Post 267758)
I assume you base this attribution on the hilt only? Nice carving and age!

Yes, you are correct, I think that it's a Long Glat hilt! :confused:


Quote:

Originally Posted by kai (Post 267758)
The Long Glat were one of the last groups to perform traditional high-quality bladesmithing into the 20th century. Even if we assume this blade to be a functional user made from precious foreign steel without bells and whistles, I don't see any of the typical Long Glat features here. High quality Long Glat blades got traded pretty much over all of Borneo - maybe this is a trade from a coastal area though?

I guess that the blade could be worked everywhere on Borneo.


Quote:

Originally Posted by kai (Post 267758)
How well does the blade fit the scabbard? Nice, old scabbard with worn knots - a large bone plate of exuberant form missing at the damaged foot. Belt also looks genuinely old (and broken); less sure about the pouch.

The scabbard is made for this blade IMVHO. And yes, there seems to be something missing at the foot of the scabbard.

Regards,
Detlef

[/QUOTE]

Sajen 26th December 2021 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS (Post 267706)
I really like the hilt carving. I am mystified by the marks. Have you tried asking the "Borneo boys" on the Borneo FaceBook page?

Hello Charles,

Thank you! I don't have a facebook account so I haven't. ;)

Regards,
Detlef

Maurice 5th February 2022 10:44 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Hi Detlef,

it is a Kayan ilang, but I wouldn't place it as 'Longglat'.
The Longglats were praised for their high end blades, like the one in my post (photo 'copied' from Arjan's website some time ago).

I would estimate your ilang first quarter of the 20thC, maybe early/around 1900's and unfortuntely I can't help you with the stamps, but what Kai mentions about your blade looks very plausible to me.

- Maurice -

Sajen 5th February 2022 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maurice (Post 269625)
it is a Kayan ilang, but I wouldn't place it as 'Longglat'.
The Longglats were praised for their high end blades, like the one in my post (photo 'copied' from Arjan's website some time ago).

I would estimate your ilang first quarter of the 20thC, maybe early/around 1900's and unfortuntely I can't help you with the stamps, but what Kai mentions about your blade looks very plausible to me.

Hi Maurice,

Thank you very much for identification and an educated guess of its age! :)

Best,
Detlef


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