Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   Odd folder (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=22891)

Richard W 27th June 2017 04:41 PM

Odd folder
 
3 Attachment(s)
Hello all, this is a wonderful resource. I will attempt to place a post with attachments. Please forgive me if I fail miserably; I am a troglodyte who collects ancient things and has a flip phone.
So... This is a small folding knife of possible Italian origin. It reminds me of the marriage gift knives that a groom would give his bride to protect her virtue and to take vengeance on her husband if he strayed. A bond of trust?
The mark looks slightly like Consgli, but only slightly. There is a lightly scratched date of 1861 on the blade, whether it is relevant is unknown.
What are your opinions of this piece please?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 1st July 2017 12:00 AM

1 Attachment(s)
It looks related to Italian Folding Knives...Like the item below...The only reference is at https://www.pinterest.com/helmuthwolff/messer/?lp=true but I cannot open the historical notes...

Richard W 1st July 2017 03:52 PM

Thank you! That is almost identical to mine. The mark is the same. Wonderful to find it has relatives and is Italian. I will not try to deal with pinterest either.
Regards,
Richard.

Richard W 1st July 2017 04:03 PM

Again thank you! I did follow up the Pinterest site and went to couteaux-jfl-com. There is the image, says : Amore knife, Italian, early 1800's. The best thing is that it taught me how to release the lock i.e. pushing to the right. I was prying it upwards; almost impossible.
Cheers!

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 2nd July 2017 06:45 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard W
Again thank you! I did follow up the Pinterest site and went to couteaux-jfl-com. There is the image, says : Amore knife, Italian, early 1800's. The best thing is that it taught me how to release the lock i.e. pushing to the right. I was prying it upwards; almost impossible.
Cheers!

It appears these are circumcission items...

Chris Evans 4th July 2017 04:31 AM

Richard,

You have a beauty with that knife! Its overall shape screams Spanish but the detail work does not. Could be the work of an expatriate Spanish cutler who, like many, went to France and Italy due to the harassment by authorities of those who pursued this trade.

As an aside, small stubby Spanish navajas of this shape nowadays are known as `navaja capadora'

As pointed out by Ibrahiim, the detail work has a strong resemblance to those Italian specimens he posted. As well, the lock is atypical for Spain.

It could have been made possibly in Italy, France, or elsewhere, but in the Spanish style. I have a 20th century navaja that looks very Spanish, but is more ornate and unusually well made and which was manufactured in France.

I had a quick look in Forton's book to see if I could identify the maker's logo/brand but no luck. Will have another look in my others books later on in the day.

Cheers
Chris

Chris Evans 4th July 2017 06:37 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Richard,

I think that your navaja could be French. The attached book cover is illustrated with one similar to yours and the author attributes it to 19th century France.

Unfortunately, I had no luck with the maker's logo.

Cheers
Chris

Gonzalo G 4th July 2017 02:49 PM

"Navaja capadora" originally meant an instrument used by the sheperds to cut the testicles of the male livestock, though of course it also had other uses. Which could have derived to the other meaning: to castrate a man in the defense of the honour by a woman. To this day, small knives are used to castrate the livestock.
Regards

Chris Evans 4th July 2017 03:02 PM

Ibrahilm,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi
It looks related to Italian Folding Knives...Like the item below...The only reference is at https://www.pinterest.com/helmuthwolff/messer/?lp=true but I cannot open the historical notes...

Try this French website: http://www.couteaux-jfl.com/Collections/Img_20921.jpg

Cheers
Chris

Ibrahiim al Balooshi 5th July 2017 03:45 PM

Salaams Chris Evans, Thank you for your excellent response; both fast and accurate. It is rare to find such expertise in this unique niche region of Ethnographic Arms . Thanks for the details...

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Richard W 6th July 2017 04:09 PM

Thank you all for your responses. I thought it was a beaut! Got it on Ebay for $75.00. Some old collector is spinning in their grave.
Regards,
Richard

Chris Evans 7th July 2017 03:27 AM

Ibrahiim,

It is my pleasure to have been able to assist in some small way.

Cheers
Chris

fernando 10th July 2017 02:21 PM

Perhaps copying this thread to the Ethno section will better discussion possibilties.

Aceto G. 30th October 2020 10:06 PM

Hi Richard I have important info for you. Write to me. mark.guerra@libero.it

David 2nd November 2020 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Perhaps copying this thread to the Ethno section will better discussion possibilties.

Copied or moved completely. These are European knives after all, yes?
Very nice example i suspect, though i don't know much about these. :)

Philip 6th November 2020 06:37 AM

The Spanish imprint in southern Italy
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Evans
Richard,

You have a beauty with that knife! Its overall shape screams Spanish but the detail work does not. Could be the work of an expatriate Spanish cutler who, like many, went to France and Italy due to the harassment by authorities of those who pursued this trade.

As an aside, small stubby Spanish navajas of this shape nowadays are known as `navaja capadora'

As pointed out by Ibrahiim, the detail work has a strong resemblance to those Italian specimens he posted. As well, the lock is atypical for Spain.

It could have been made possibly in Italy, France, or elsewhere, but in the Spanish style.



Cheers
Chris

Great that you point this out! It fits in with the history of the lower half of Italy plus Sicily, (everything south of Naples), which was actually ruled by the Spanish Crown for centuries, until the unification of the peninsula in the 19th cent.

It is for this reason that cutlers and gunsmiths working in southern Italy developed a regional style that was heavily Spanish-influenced in terms of functional form and of aesthetics, and very distinct from those of the regions further north. Yet it was not slavish imitation; in detail the local imagination is apparent. These knives are attractive and of considerable interest not only to knife collectors but to those interested in the ethnography and craft traditions of Mediterranean Europe. Though weapons from this region do not have the collector cachet of those made further north, quality could be quite high, as exemplified by the sporting arms made at the Fabbrica Reale di Napoli.

These folding knives can be looked at in the same light as cup-hilt rapiers, whose popularity in Italy lay only among the Hispanicized elite, as opposed to their universal appeal on the Iberian Peninsula (and in variant form, in Spanish territories in the Americas).


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