Ethnographic Arms & Armour

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-   -   FRENCH AN IX 'ESPINGOLE' ? (http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=18683)

thinreadline 19th June 2014 12:31 PM

FRENCH AN IX 'ESPINGOLE' ?
 
4 Attachment(s)
A friend has just sent these ( awful ) pictures of a swivel gun he found in a building he has bought . Lucky chap !

Richard G 19th June 2014 03:05 PM

Possibly a harpoon or line throwing gun?
Regards
Richard

thinreadline 19th June 2014 03:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
no , I dont think so , I am sure it is a French swivel gun from the late 18th C .. here is a picture from Gilkerson of the same with the flintlock mechanism in place

Andreas 19th June 2014 06:17 PM

Michel Brézin (1758-1828) was an important French canon manufacturer, with foundries in Paris and Normandy, operating since the 1790’s and a major supplier of guns to the French military during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic eras. I believe that in French the term perrier for these swivel guns is more common than espingole, although the latter is also used, but the main meaning is blunderbuss. This particular piece was made in 1812 (as per the inscription), was there an An IX (1800-01) model?
Regards,
Andreas

thinreadline 19th June 2014 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andreas
Michel Brézin (1758-1828) was an important French canon manufacturer, with foundries in Paris and Normandy, operating since the 1790’s and a major supplier of guns to the French military during the Revolutionary and Napoleonic eras. I believe that in French the term perrier for these swivel guns is more common than espingole, although the latter is also used, but the main meaning is blunderbuss. This particular piece was made in 1812 (as per the inscription), was there an An IX (1800-01) model?
Regards,
Andreas

Yes , very interesting Andreas , I say An IX simply because as you can see in the pic from Gilkerson , that is what he ID s it as . An IX is around 1802 isnt it ?

fernando 19th June 2014 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline
Yes , very interesting Andreas , I say An IX simply because as you can see in the pic from Gilkerson , that is what he ID s it as . An IX is around 1802 isnt it ?

As Andreas says and also readable in the book, An IX (of the revolution)corresponds to 1800/1801. Interesting is that that this type of gun already existed prior to that; An IX was the year in which t was redesigned.
Peculiar gun, one should say :cool:

dana_w 19th June 2014 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline
A friend has just sent these ( awful ) pictures of a swivel gun he found in a building he has bought . Lucky chap !

I don't know about "awful". Those picture gave me a good chuckle.
:p

Why don't I ever find something like that?

fernando 19th June 2014 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dana_w
...Why don't I ever find something like that?

Each one gets what he deserves :D :eek:

Norman McCormick 19th June 2014 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Each one gets what he deserves :D :eek:


Oh s--t !!! :eek: :eek: :eek:



P.S. Great gun :cool: I wonder where in the house it was found.

thinreadline 20th June 2014 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick
Oh s--t !!! :eek: :eek: :eek:



P.S. Great gun :cool: I wonder where in the house it was found.


Well Norman . apparently it was a Kardomah Coffee House ! I have spent a lot of time in coffee houses and never found anything more exciting than a plastic butter knife !

M ELEY 20th June 2014 04:58 AM

Unbelievable!!!! I could only be so lucky! I've been trying to land a swivel gun over the past decade and here we have a chap that finds one in a deserted building!! I think I'll take up renovating- :eek: Very nice naval piece, BTW.

thinreadline 20th June 2014 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY
Unbelievable!!!! I could only be so lucky! I've been trying to land a swivel gun over the past decade and here we have a chap that finds one in a deserted building!! I think I'll take up renovating- :eek: Very nice naval piece, BTW.

Yes and to make it worse he is not interested in weaponry at all , but neither does he seem keen to sell it ... very frustrating !

fernando 20th June 2014 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M ELEY
... Very nice naval piece, BTW.

It had to be naval; can't it be swiveled it on a horse saddle or the like ? :eek: :eek: :eek:

fernando 20th June 2014 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline
Yes and to make it worse he is not interested in weaponry at all , but neither does he seem keen to sell it ... very frustrating !

Make him an offer he can't refuse ... where have i heard this ? :rolleyes:

thinreadline 20th June 2014 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Make him an offer he can't refuse ... where have i heard this ? :rolleyes:


That's always a tricky negotiation ... if you make a really good offer then they always think .. 'wow it must be worth MUCH more than that ! ' .

kronckew 20th June 2014 05:51 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
It had to be naval; can't it be swiveled it on a horse saddle or the like ? :eek: :eek: :eek:

seek and ye shall find. funny lookin' horse tho.

fernando 20th June 2014 06:29 PM

Outstanding Wayne :D
Mind you, if the sailor smokes a couple joints and looses his hands firmness, he might shot the horse's head :eek:

Norman McCormick 20th June 2014 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline
Well Norman . apparently it was a Kardomah Coffee House ! I have spent a lot of time in coffee houses and never found anything more exciting than a plastic butter knife !

Hi,
You'll never guess, I've found another book that definitely identifies this object as an old style mass produced French coffee grinder and believe it or not I've just got a new kitchen and the one thing I'm lacking is, you guessed it, a coffee grinder. ;) Now, after much deliberation and no mean physical effort I've levered open the sporran and there are twenty one shiny new shillings, THAT'S A WHOLE GUINEA!!!, waiting to be spent on or according to the wife squandered on this rusty old French coffee grinder. Ye might think my name is Carnegie offering all that money but a'm just a poor wee Scotsman in dire need of a coffee grinder. :o :D
Yours,
Norman.

fernando 20th June 2014 07:15 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Give up the fight, lads :shrug:
I am the only one who owns a decent boat to install this thing :cool:

.

kronckew 20th June 2014 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
Outstanding Wayne :D
Mind you, if the sailor smokes a couple joints and looses his hands firmness, he might shot the horse's head :eek:

i will NOT mention the XXX joke about why the camel is called the 'ship of the desert'. it will get me banned. :) i leave that to your fertile imaginations.

nice barca, fernando. you might want to beef up the gunwales* a tad, they look a bit flimsey for that coffee grinder.

gunwales, or gunnels is of course derived from gun walls, the extension of the hull planking (and later, plating) upwards past the weather deck to which swivel guns (and lines and ropes of all sizes and descriptions) were attached.

sadly, you would need to drill a rather large hole in a horse to mount this swivel gun. which kind of defeats the purpose as the horse would not like that.

fernando 21st June 2014 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew
i will NOT mention the XXX joke about why the camel is called the 'ship of the desert'. it will get me banned. :) i leave that to your fertile imaginations.

English pun; no sense in portuguese :rolleyes: ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew
...nice barca, fernando..

It is called a lancha (from the malay lancharam ... go figure), in a version exclusive from my fishing home town.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew
...you might want to beef up the gunwales* a tad, they look a bit flimsey for that coffee grinder...

Wrong angle. This may be a replica but its total length is almost 80 cms ( 31" in your lingo), and its 'amuradas' are thick enough to bear a couple coffee grinders like the one posted by Richmond :cool: .

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew
...sadly, you would need to drill a rather large hole in a horse to mount this swivel gun. which kind of defeats the purpose as the horse would not like that.

The hole is already there; the swivel gun position would be an odd one, though. Ah, now comes the ban :eek:

kronckew 21st June 2014 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando
...
The hole is already there; the swivel gun position would be an odd one, though. Ah, now comes the ban :eek:

i never considered it from that angle. ;)

maybe as a mobile anti-aircraft weapon?

after all, leonardo invented the airplane back in the 15/16c., 300 or so yrs earlier, so they must have thought of a defence by 1812.

http://www.historyanswers.co.uk/wp-c...ng_machine.jpg

p.s. - googling lanch poviera brought up some images of slightly larger ones, nice looking boats. well capable of mounting his find.
http://img2.tfd.com/wiki/0/0f/Lancha.jpghttp://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...ckew/barca.jpg

fernando 21st June 2014 01:48 PM

Lancha Poveira
 
You got it Wayne. When a kid, i used to play inside the last of them, when ashore (during the fifties).
Pity the whole fleet has disappeared. The present one is just for fun :shrug:

Dave Parkhill 20th June 2021 12:08 PM

Gilkerson book
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thinreadline (Post 171668)
no , I dont think so , I am sure it is a French swivel gun from the late 18th C .. here is a picture from Gilkerson of the same with the flintlock mechanism in place

Hello. Could you tell me title of this book please?

Thanks
Dave

Norman McCormick 20th June 2021 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Parkhill (Post 263736)
Hello. Could you tell me title of this book please?

Thanks
Dave

Hi Dave,
Boarders Away by William Gilkerson.
Regards,
Norman.

M ELEY 20th June 2021 08:37 PM

I just bid on one of these in a London auction several months ago. needless to say, I didn't even come close to winning! Just like this example from the old thread, t was missing it's flintlock mechanism, which I'm told is as rare as the gun itself!

BTW, Thinreadline, does your friend still have this piece? Still not interested in selling?:D


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