Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 26th June 2013, 04:30 PM   #1
driftwould
Member
 
driftwould's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Currently, Taiwan. Previously China for 6 years. Speak and read 中文 well.
Posts: 34
Default Old Uyghur Knives?

Hi all,

I'm trying to find out some information about old/antique Uyghur knives from Xinjiang, China, their history and development and where and how to get them. I've been to Xinjiang twice and gotten some really nice modern ones (all hand made in the traditional way, please see attached), but there seems to be a real black hole about information about old ones. The only thing I can find across the whole internet is this completed Ebay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Chin...p2047675.l2557

The seller told me he got the item from an old woman whose husband had been there in the 20's or 30's. Any idea how to find more information? It's shaping up to be a real mystery!

Thanks
Attached Images
       
driftwould is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2013, 05:55 PM   #2
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,595
Default

I believe we have discussed knives similar to the one in the eBay listing. I may stand corrected on this, but they look like North African and relatively recent to me, so I very much doubt the Uyghur attribution.

The modern examples you have posted are similar to modern examples from Uzbekistan. This makes perfect sense and one could guess that Uyghur knives were likely not very different than the knives of other Turkic groups to the West of them in Central Asia. Searching for "pichok" (derived from bicag, or knife in Turkish) will probably produce some results.

Regards,
Teodor
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2013, 12:53 AM   #3
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

They are very much Uighur:-) And, of course, similar to the Uzbeki /Turkestani pichoks. Not a miracle: neighbourly and very closely related people. North-West China, Yengissar.

And very new, no more than 20 years old, likely much less.


For those of you who can read Russian ( Teodor, can you hear me ? :-)), here is a link to the Russian site with long and detailed discussion of these knives. And for the linguistically-challenged, the pics are plentiful.
Enjoy!
http://rusknife.com/topic/8629-ножи-суар/
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2013, 11:32 AM   #4
driftwould
Member
 
driftwould's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Currently, Taiwan. Previously China for 6 years. Speak and read 中文 well.
Posts: 34
Default New, of course!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
They are very much Uighur:-) And, of course, similar to the Uzbeki /Turkestani pichoks. Not a miracle: neighbourly and very closely related people. North-West China, Yengissar.

And very new, no more than 20 years old, likely much less.


For those of you who can read Russian ( Teodor, can you hear me ? :-)), here is a link to the Russian site with long and detailed discussion of these knives. And for the linguistically-challenged, the pics are plentiful.
Enjoy!
http://rusknife.com/topic/8629-ножи-суар/



Hi! Thanks for the reply. Yes, they are actually 2 years old, I bought them in Xinjiang on my recent trip, as I mentioned. But what about the one in the Ebay link? You seem to know something about Uyghur/Uighur knives, can you tell me anything about old ones, or direct me to info (or even better- PICTURES!! :^D )? I'm looking for more info about the old variety, but I can't find any.

I'll be looking into Uzbek and other Central Asian knives as well.
driftwould is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2013, 04:42 PM   #5
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,408
Default

Only want to add the pictures from the auction for later reference!

Regards,

Detlef
Attached Images
   
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2013, 04:50 PM   #6
Gavin Nugent
Member
 
Gavin Nugent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,818
Default Knives

There is a good link on HF sword forum too but not at my finger tips...perhaps one of our members who reads Chinese well can better place it here. I will look when I have the time.

I have several fine antique Pichoq in my collections along with an interesting Khyber knife with a pommel more akin to these knives than the typical horn mounted Afghan ones...its blade is well recurved and shows a nice pattern welding seen more on Chinese weapons....exact origins have always puzzled me a little but these regions are so wonderfully diverse.

There are a few books on Uzbekistan and surrounding regions that show these knives too...as I am moving home most of my books are now packed away but one title from memory is "Uzbekistan, heirs to the silk road", there may be some in "A song in metal" too if I recalled the title correct???

Gavin
Gavin Nugent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2013, 05:43 PM   #7
TVV
Member
 
TVV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 1,595
Default

Thank you for the link Ariel. While the thread is mostly about modern production, it seems that the traditional form is the pichok. After European contact, there have been multiple influences, leading to a variety of new forms. Some interesting history on Soviet meddling in the region as well.

Teodor
TVV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 12:28 AM   #8
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TVV
Some interesting history on Soviet meddling in the region as well.

Teodor
An understatement of the year:-)
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th June 2013, 02:12 AM   #9
driftwould
Member
 
driftwould's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Currently, Taiwan. Previously China for 6 years. Speak and read 中文 well.
Posts: 34
Wink Replies all around!

Sajen:

Thanks for posting those pics, good idea.

TVV:

Thanks for the reply. Just to reiterate, when I posted this I really was looking for info on older types of blades that the modern ones I posted pics of descended from, and still am. The info about links to Uzbek knives is great and I'll be learning more about that the first chance I get.

SwordsAntiqueWeapons:

I read 中文 reasonably well (and live in Taiwan, so have lots of native speaking friends), but since I'm just starting out I'm still pretty unfamiliar with a lot of websites. If you can post the link you mentioned at HF sword forum that would be great- I did a Google search for HF sword forum but didn't find the site you were talking about... (yeah, newbie! ) The books sound great, please post more titles specific to Central Asian knives and other traditional weapons when you get a chance!
driftwould is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.