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3rd September 2021, 04:07 PM | #1 | |
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Quote:
Agreed! South Indian three fullers are larger and not completely parrallel (unlike the takouba's ones), wider at the ricasso. Mmmm I never ever saw that, like mercenary I would like to see evidences. |
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3rd September 2021, 06:26 PM | #2 |
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Hi,
This sword belongs to me and I am as sure as I can be that it is all original and not a composite. I termed this sword as Sukhela as the blade has the flexibility to conform to the type. The sword form appears to be named after this type of steel. This is a backsword and I would be interested if Stu could confirm if his is a backsword or broadsword. Regards, Norman. Last edited by Norman McCormick; 3rd September 2021 at 06:50 PM. |
3rd September 2021, 06:29 PM | #3 |
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Hi,
This sword belongs to Rick and again as far as I can see it is also a backsword. Rick questioned whether his example be termed a Dhup. Regards, Norman. |
3rd September 2021, 06:37 PM | #4 |
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3rd September 2021, 06:52 PM | #5 |
Arms Historian
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Hi Norman,
I am inclined to believe that these 'dhup' are typically backswords (SE) as yours and Rick's, it seems other examples I have seen are single edged. From the blade appearance of Stu's I am suspecting this is a double edged blade, note the fullers are centrally placed. In backswords, the fullers are of course inclined toward the back of the blade with the blade resulting in more of a 'wedge' shape. |
3rd September 2021, 06:59 PM | #6 |
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3rd September 2021, 08:45 PM | #7 |
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Hi Norm and Jim,
This sword was SOLD at auction here but is not owned by me. However the blade was described as double edged. Stu |
4th September 2021, 01:36 AM | #8 |
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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This sword came from Oriental Arms many years ago; Artzi described the steel as very fine grained, low contrast wootz.
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5th September 2021, 12:11 AM | #9 |
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My understanding ( as per Elgood) that a Firangi ( European blade) migrated North and was called Dhup in the Deccan and Asa Shamshir in North India.
And yes, those were usually quite long, but, just like everything in India, they varied enormously. Here I am showing my Firangis. It is quite dark outside, I had to turn off some lights in our pretty small " open" room to eliminate flashes on the blades and,- last but not least,- I am a crummy photographer!!!!!! |
5th September 2021, 12:28 AM | #10 |
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Real firangi.
This is an unquestionably real Firangi from the South.
European double-edged blade wit a single wide fuller and a " Genoese"/"Styrian"/ make your guess. trade blade. Blade is marked , see last pic. No Indian ricasso, blade length 34 " Good and complete basket handle with intact baluster and leather-wrapped hilt, old, practically congealed leather, if not the original, then definitely from the working life of this Firangi. Last edited by ariel; 5th September 2021 at 04:39 PM. |
5th September 2021, 12:58 AM | #11 |
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Two more firangis: Indian? European?
Here are two more with questionable datings and attributions.
The first pic shows them together: blade length of the long one is 38", definitely qualifying it as Asa Shamshir ( staff sword). The blade has 3 narrow fullers and we can see it on trade blade from Europe, North African and Indian, It is single -edged and has no Indian ricasso. There is a mark almost hidden under the langet: real European trade or local imitation? Pretty basic basket handle, no terminal of the baluster ( lost? never existed?) I suspect the entire sword is a local Indian production, likely Moghul, 18-19th century. The short one is more interesting. blade length only 24". It is hexagonal that I cannot recall on genuine Indian blades. AFAIK, this pattern stems from the Spanish cavalry sword 1728 pattern, but please feel free to correct me. Three narrow central fullers, pretty crude carving technique, I would guess made locally. No Indian ricasso, double-edged. No marks. My guess those might have been lost when the blade was shortened: the original Spanish blade was 33" long and had small ricassos on both edges. Typical Tulwar handle, but with an interesting feature: pretty long baluster that is bent down: usually thought to be a feature of the 17th century. Two rivets with brass washers underneath: one at the grip, another at the quillon block. While some stress the presence of rivets (especially at the quillon block) as a distinctive Afghani feature, the original idea came from the South and just migrated North. I would think about Deccan/ Maratha and place the whole thing around 17-18 century ( open for discussion). Highly likely, for both the blade and the handle it was not the first marriage:-) Last edited by ariel; 5th September 2021 at 09:27 PM. |
5th September 2021, 08:05 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
Likely entered the Mahratta trade sphere. |
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