Monstrous Indian Sword

ariel · 9th June 2006, 03:21 AM

Just ended.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6634554654
It looks very impressive, isn't it?
I just wonder whether it could be wielded effectively in the battle of used by palace guards to scare away the passerbys

The blade has striations(?). Is it Damascus? Anybody knows the meaning of the flower mark on the blade?
I always wanted one of those but one has to set priorities.

erlikhan · 9th June 2006, 07:23 AM

I dont think it could have a use else than as a saw to cut and shape plants in the palace garden

. Does to cut a normal blade simply in two from tip to middle without any structural addition make it a Zulfikar type sword?.Plus,all of those Indian samples I have seen insist to have a large hole at the end of the gap,which causes the blade get even weaker!

Valjhun · 9th June 2006, 08:11 AM

Well, I must dissagree with both of you.

That is definetly a 17th century piece (according to Tirri) and I like it verry much, almost totaly of my taste. The darkest piece I've ever seen. Nice clean job. Nice welded steel construction (maybe even wootz the owner will have to ethch it) When I saw it I asked myself if Tirri is selling his collection out, but at a closer look thatone is a little different, from the one in his book, but still enoughly similar that would form a pair.

Use as a weapon? Well

, it has to be used by one of those schwartzie looking, two meter tall guys dressed with red tourbans and white pants

It's efficiency as a weapon is questionable. Verry intimidating, yes, but... Well i would guess that it is quite balanced compared to a tegha, the weight of the blade is greatly reduced by the split. The split on most Dhul Fagars I've seen is really very weak points, but definetly no thatone. Beeig made from welded steel it makes it verry flexible and still the blade is quite thick. That hole Erlikhan, has a function, I suppose, Just immagine a tulwar blade beeing trapped there. Further the serrated blade in combination with its weight would be great in tearing apart chainmail. Not a decoration piece at all, just a different view of combat style. Comparing it to a tulwar or a firanghi, it would be the same if you compare the style of combat between a rapier and a german two handed panzersticher.

Well all, I have said about its battle use is pure speculation, as I haven't handlle it. Yes SenSei, it could be terrible to handle.

just my 0,02$, but

I LIKE IT!

I'm really looking forward comments from B.I., Jens, Jim, Lew and other masters of Indian Weapons.

P.S.: "I always wanted one of those but one has to set priorities." SenSei, If you have in mind what I know you have, ending on 12 june with a curved blade... It will be a hard master to pupil battle

erlikhan · 9th June 2006, 04:14 PM

I mean this "hole", not the long gap between the edges. It has no use but only causes the blade get even much weaker against collisions with other blades. (It is already weak enough even without considering that hole, because it is split into two)

Valjhun · 9th June 2006, 05:39 PM

Yes Erlikhan, I also mean that hole... Immagine a firangi blade getting there and the fast spring aciton of the wielder of the zulfikar...

B.I · 9th June 2006, 07:15 PM

hi valhjun,
i am happy to participate on any discussion on indian swords. however, i would prefer it if all cards were on the table.
you said -

maybe even wootz the owner will have to ethch it

and

as I haven't handlle it

are you the owner? I dont mind if you are, but speaking as a third party in disguise just hints at ulterior motives.

or, maybe i have just read too many sherlock holmes novels!

ErnestoJuan · 9th June 2006, 07:53 PM

Well guys,

I know absolutely nothing about Indian edged weapons. To me this looks like a giant can opener

Sardines Vindaloo anybody ?

Valjhun · 9th June 2006, 07:55 PM

No, I'm not the owner. However I know the guy who made the last bid on that. He is not a member of this forum.

I havent got your point....

"maybe even wootz the owner will have to ethch it" - I said that 'cos it the material looks like welded steel, but maybe a wootz pattern will show up if the buyer decides to etch it.

"as I haven't handled it" - Well, I haven't had that particular sword in my hand. I sad that, 'cos I'd liked to accenuate that my opinions about the fighting qualities of that sword are mere speculation based on logic.

I really don't know what have you meant with your Sherlock Holmes post.

B.I · 9th June 2006, 09:22 PM

hi valjhun,
i didnt mean anything bad by it, but was just a little confused.
by looking at the winners history, he was the same guy that won this sword

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2511

in that thread, you mentioned that you had bought the sword.

so, sherlock holmes put the two together and figured that you were the winning bidder.

i wouldnt be surprised if i was wrong, as i always thought that watson was the brains anyway.

no offence meant.

Valjhun · 9th June 2006, 09:33 PM

In fact he bought it for me toghether with some other items, 'cos I had probblems the last month with my credit card issuer, according to paypal. wich is not the case with that dhul fagar, I'm affraid (and frustrated

)

B.I · 9th June 2006, 09:43 PM

did your friend decide to keep it himself

nothing worse than a collector/dealer as he will only sell things that he doesnt like himself! personally, i prefer someone that will sell his right arm for a profit as at least you get a chance for the good stuff.
appologies for the accusations

Tim Simmons · 10th June 2006, 11:09 AM

Not an area I know much about but to me the construction flows very nicely and the overall shape is of one piece and meddle free. It is highly likely that the blade has always been kept cleaner than the handle it only takes seconds to wipe a blade. It is jolly impressive looking which I think its major purpose. Some forked weapons are for fighting but I suspect most are parade like pieces from the Sudan to Indonesia. I could rather fancy one.

katana · 11th June 2006, 12:04 PM

What a fantastically fearsome sword, looks impractical to me, but to have that un-sheathed in a threatening manner would certainly frighten the hell out of me

As to the 'blade catcher' well IMHO, irrespective of the strength of the blade, the skill and accuracy required to trap your opponants blade would be extraordinary. If a swordsman's skill was that good, he certainly would not need to trap your blade....a bit like fighting Goliath ......without the sling shot.

But that 'saw' edged blade 'slashed' across the chest, gives new meaning to open heart surgery

I REALLY LIKE IT

Valjhun · 18th July 2006, 05:35 PM

YES!

I've managed to buy it actually. I was a bit sceptic, but today I visited my friend and I persuaded him to sell me the sword. I fallen in love with the sword in the right moment I've took it in my hand. WHAT A MASTERPIECE! It's balance is terrific and (well I'm a little bit ashamed of telling you that

) it gives you a sense an incredible sense of power holding it!!!! I handled a lot of tulwars and even similar size teghas, but I can assure you that noone was so balanced and of such gorgeus feeling about it. You can make a deadly slash with it.

Constructed of very fine laminated steel (maybe wootz), that the photos doesn't make justice.

Not so bad, even with its notch. The points are very flexible an they wont bed or broke off I guess, even in the heat of the combat. Somewhere I've read that Hindus predileged holy forms on their weapons over a pratical use. Is that the case?

There is a photo of one quite similar in the Jaiwants' book on page 62, where it is defined as SAPOLA or PAHARI SWORD, HIMICAL OR UTTAR PRADESH, 16th century A.D. What does that mean?

Further what is the meaning of thoose flowers?

Jens Nordlunde · 18th July 2006, 09:37 PM

Hi Valjhun,

You wrote 'There is a photo of one quite similar in the Jaiwants' book on page 62'. Did you know that the author wrote more than one book? Please tell us which book you are refering to.

Valjhun · 18th July 2006, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Hi Valjhun,

You wrote 'There is a photo of one quite similar in the Jaiwants' book on page 62'. Did you know that the author wrote more than one book? Please tell us which book you are refering to.

Sorry Jens, I didn't know that Mr. Jaiwant wrote other books than Arms and Armour - Traditional weapons of India.

I'm really looking forward to read your comment about it. Thanks!

katana · 18th July 2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valjhun

YES!

WHAT A MASTERPIECE! It's balance is terrific and (well I'm a little bit ashamed of telling you that

) it gives you a sense an incredible sense of power holding it!!!! I handled a lot of tulwars and even similar size teghas, but I can assure you that noone was so balanced and of such gorgeus feeling about it. You can make a deadly slash with it.

Constructed of very fine laminated steel (maybe wootz), that the photos doesn't make justice.

Not so bad, even with its notch. The points are very flexible an they wont bed or broke off I guess, even in the heat of the combat.

Valjhun, I said before that I really liked it......but after these comments .....
I LIKE IT EVEN MORE

9th June 2006, 03:21 AM	#1
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Monstrous Indian Sword Just ended. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=6634554654 It looks very impressive, isn't it? I just wonder whether it could be wielded effectively in the battle of used by palace guards to scare away the passerbys The blade has striations(?). Is it Damascus? Anybody knows the meaning of the flower mark on the blade? I always wanted one of those but one has to set priorities.

9th June 2006, 08:11 AM	#3
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Well, I must dissagree with both of you. That is definetly a 17th century piece (according to Tirri) and I like it verry much, almost totaly of my taste. The darkest piece I've ever seen. Nice clean job. Nice welded steel construction (maybe even wootz the owner will have to ethch it) When I saw it I asked myself if Tirri is selling his collection out, but at a closer look thatone is a little different, from the one in his book, but still enoughly similar that would form a pair. Use as a weapon? Well , it has to be used by one of those schwartzie looking, two meter tall guys dressed with red tourbans and white pants It's efficiency as a weapon is questionable. Verry intimidating, yes, but... Well i would guess that it is quite balanced compared to a tegha, the weight of the blade is greatly reduced by the split. The split on most Dhul Fagars I've seen is really very weak points, but definetly no thatone. Beeig made from welded steel it makes it verry flexible and still the blade is quite thick. That hole Erlikhan, has a function, I suppose, Just immagine a tulwar blade beeing trapped there. Further the serrated blade in combination with its weight would be great in tearing apart chainmail. Not a decoration piece at all, just a different view of combat style. Comparing it to a tulwar or a firanghi, it would be the same if you compare the style of combat between a rapier and a german two handed panzersticher. Well all, I have said about its battle use is pure speculation, as I haven't handlle it. Yes SenSei, it could be terrible to handle. just my 0,02$, but I LIKE IT! I'm really looking forward comments from B.I., Jens, Jim, Lew and other masters of Indian Weapons. P.S.: "I always wanted one of those but one has to set priorities." SenSei, If you have in mind what I know you have, ending on 12 june with a curved blade... It will be a hard master to pupil battle Last edited by Valjhun; 9th June 2006 at 10:26 AM.

9th June 2006, 04:14 PM	#4
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	I mean this "hole", not the long gap between the edges. It has no use but only causes the blade get even much weaker against collisions with other blades. (It is already weak enough even without considering that hole, because it is split into two) Attached Images

10th June 2006, 11:09 AM	#12
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,739	Not an area I know much about but to me the construction flows very nicely and the overall shape is of one piece and meddle free. It is highly likely that the blade has always been kept cleaner than the handle it only takes seconds to wipe a blade. It is jolly impressive looking which I think its major purpose. Some forked weapons are for fighting but I suspect most are parade like pieces from the Sudan to Indonesia. I could rather fancy one. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 10th June 2006 at 11:19 AM.

18th July 2006, 05:35 PM	#14
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	YES! I've managed to buy it actually. I was a bit sceptic, but today I visited my friend and I persuaded him to sell me the sword. I fallen in love with the sword in the right moment I've took it in my hand. WHAT A MASTERPIECE! It's balance is terrific and (well I'm a little bit ashamed of telling you that ) it gives you a sense an incredible sense of power holding it!!!! I handled a lot of tulwars and even similar size teghas, but I can assure you that noone was so balanced and of such gorgeus feeling about it. You can make a deadly slash with it. Constructed of very fine laminated steel (maybe wootz), that the photos doesn't make justice. Not so bad, even with its notch. The points are very flexible an they wont bed or broke off I guess, even in the heat of the combat. Somewhere I've read that Hindus predileged holy forms on their weapons over a pratical use. Is that the case? There is a photo of one quite similar in the Jaiwants' book on page 62, where it is defined as SAPOLA or PAHARI SWORD, HIMICAL OR UTTAR PRADESH, 16th century A.D. What does that mean? Further what is the meaning of thoose flowers? Last edited by Valjhun; 18th July 2006 at 05:57 PM.

9th June 2006, 07:23 AM	#2
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	I dont think it could have a use else than as a saw to cut and shape plants in the palace garden . Does to cut a normal blade simply in two from tip to middle without any structural addition make it a Zulfikar type sword?.Plus,all of those Indian samples I have seen insist to have a large hole at the end of the gap,which causes the blade get even weaker!

9th June 2006, 05:39 PM	#5
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	Yes Erlikhan, I also mean that hole... Immagine a firangi blade getting there and the fast spring aciton of the wielder of the zulfikar...

9th June 2006, 07:15 PM	#6
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi valhjun, i am happy to participate on any discussion on indian swords. however, i would prefer it if all cards were on the table. you said - maybe even wootz the owner will have to ethch it and as I haven't handlle it are you the owner? I dont mind if you are, but speaking as a third party in disguise just hints at ulterior motives. or, maybe i have just read too many sherlock holmes novels!

9th June 2006, 07:53 PM	#7
ErnestoJuan Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Europa Posts: 60	Well guys, I know absolutely nothing about Indian edged weapons. To me this looks like a giant can opener Sardines Vindaloo anybody ?

9th June 2006, 07:55 PM	#8
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	No, I'm not the owner. However I know the guy who made the last bid on that. He is not a member of this forum. I havent got your point.... "maybe even wootz the owner will have to ethch it" - I said that 'cos it the material looks like welded steel, but maybe a wootz pattern will show up if the buyer decides to etch it. "as I haven't handled it" - Well, I haven't had that particular sword in my hand. I sad that, 'cos I'd liked to accenuate that my opinions about the fighting qualities of that sword are mere speculation based on logic. I really don't know what have you meant with your Sherlock Holmes post.

9th June 2006, 09:22 PM	#9
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	hi valjhun, i didnt mean anything bad by it, but was just a little confused. by looking at the winners history, he was the same guy that won this sword http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=2511 in that thread, you mentioned that you had bought the sword. so, sherlock holmes put the two together and figured that you were the winning bidder. i wouldnt be surprised if i was wrong, as i always thought that watson was the brains anyway. no offence meant.

9th June 2006, 09:33 PM	#10
Valjhun Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 692	In fact he bought it for me toghether with some other items, 'cos I had probblems the last month with my credit card issuer, according to paypal. wich is not the case with that dhul fagar, I'm affraid (and frustrated )

9th June 2006, 09:43 PM	#11
B.I Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 485	did your friend decide to keep it himself nothing worse than a collector/dealer as he will only sell things that he doesnt like himself! personally, i prefer someone that will sell his right arm for a profit as at least you get a chance for the good stuff. appologies for the accusations

11th June 2006, 12:04 PM	#13
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,653	What a fantastically fearsome sword, looks impractical to me, but to have that un-sheathed in a threatening manner would certainly frighten the hell out of me As to the 'blade catcher' well IMHO, irrespective of the strength of the blade, the skill and accuracy required to trap your opponants blade would be extraordinary. If a swordsman's skill was that good, he certainly would not need to trap your blade....a bit like fighting Goliath ......without the sling shot. But that 'saw' edged blade 'slashed' across the chest, gives new meaning to open heart surgery I REALLY LIKE IT

18th July 2006, 09:37 PM	#15
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Hi Valjhun, You wrote 'There is a photo of one quite similar in the Jaiwants' book on page 62'. Did you know that the author wrote more than one book? Please tell us which book you are refering to.