Dukari moon marks on North African blades

Gavin Nugent · 17th September 2020, 09:28 AM

G'day Jim,

I've had a look through half a dozen volumes here, just a cursory glance and not too much of a deep dive read.

Sir James Mann, Wallace Collection catalogues Vol II, entries A545, A557, A582 & A675 all carry variants of these moons with A582 being closest by design. What the alignment of these stamps within each blade is, I cannot ascertain.

David H Caldwell, Scottish Weapons and Fortifications 1100-1800, figure 9, late 16th, early 17th basket hilt, National Museum of Antiquities Scotland (LA[1966]) notes half moon stamps on each face, single or double is unknown to me. Firmly dated 1570-1630. The entire chapter is a very detailed and well research treatise of early Basket Hilts in Britain.

Had Mazansky in his work on British Basket Hilted Swords gathered blade data, I suspect others would be revealed too.

Gavin

Yvain · 17th September 2020, 12:19 PM

Hi Jim !

You raise a fascinating question here, with a very interesting specimen ! The origin of dukari marks on North African trade blades has been discussed on this forum before, if I'm not mistaken, and the consensus went toward the idea that they were locally applied, even on imported blades. However, your example here, the leads suggested by Gavin, and this specimen: https://collections.royalarmouries.o...ect-31725.html that I'm adding to our corpus seem to challenge that idea, as we now have two blades that most likely never left Europe carrying those dual dukari marks.

Although it is obvious that some dukari were locally applied in North Africa on local or imported blades, by the means of engraving, some, on the other hand, seem to have been stamped on the metal (as is the case of my takouba, of which I'm joining a close-up of its dukari), and could thus maybe have been marked this way in Europe. I don't know if it was possible to punch a blade this way when it was cold, with the means available in North Africa at the time, or if it needed the blade to be red hot, but I'll try to ask a friend of mine who is one of the most talented swordsmith working in our day (using traditional techniques), as he might have an idea on the matter.

17th September 2020, 12:19 PM	#2
Yvain Member Join Date: May 2017 Location: France Posts: 181	Hi Jim ! You raise a fascinating question here, with a very interesting specimen ! The origin of dukari marks on North African trade blades has been discussed on this forum before, if I'm not mistaken, and the consensus went toward the idea that they were locally applied, even on imported blades. However, your example here, the leads suggested by Gavin, and this specimen: https://collections.royalarmouries.o...ect-31725.html that I'm adding to our corpus seem to challenge that idea, as we now have two blades that most likely never left Europe carrying those dual dukari marks. Although it is obvious that some dukari were locally applied in North Africa on local or imported blades, by the means of engraving, some, on the other hand, seem to have been stamped on the metal (as is the case of my takouba, of which I'm joining a close-up of its dukari), and could thus maybe have been marked this way in Europe. I don't know if it was possible to punch a blade this way when it was cold, with the means available in North Africa at the time, or if it needed the blade to be red hot, but I'll try to ask a friend of mine who is one of the most talented swordsmith working in our day (using traditional techniques), as he might have an idea on the matter. Attached Images

17th September 2020, 09:28 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	G'day Jim, I've had a look through half a dozen volumes here, just a cursory glance and not too much of a deep dive read. Sir James Mann, Wallace Collection catalogues Vol II, entries A545, A557, A582 & A675 all carry variants of these moons with A582 being closest by design. What the alignment of these stamps within each blade is, I cannot ascertain. David H Caldwell, Scottish Weapons and Fortifications 1100-1800, figure 9, late 16th, early 17th basket hilt, National Museum of Antiquities Scotland (LA[1966]) notes half moon stamps on each face, single or double is unknown to me. Firmly dated 1570-1630. The entire chapter is a very detailed and well research treatise of early Basket Hilts in Britain. Had Mazansky in his work on British Basket Hilted Swords gathered blade data, I suspect others would be revealed too. Gavin