If Not a Barong,Then What?

kai · 23rd August 2023, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Can someone point out the damaged part of this hilt? I am afraid i do not see it.

David, Jose's mention of "damaging" was an autocorrection glitch when trying to type kamagong...

drac2k · 24th August 2023, 04:11 AM

The max. width at the base of the spine is a 1/4"; the wood is very dense and heavy, more so than any mahogany that I am familiar with and it does not appear to be stained. The scabbard is not of the same quality as the sword so it could be a replacement sheath or maybe just like some beautiful kampilans with very crude breakaway scabbards for combat.
Tomorrow I will post a barong that came from the same collection, covered in the same cosmoline grease, which indicates that they were collected at the same time; maybe the barong can help date the other item.
Thanks for all of the comments and the great pictures!

Ian · 24th August 2023, 11:37 AM

Hi drac,

That's an interesting old piece. The naga hilt is an unusual item and very similar to the one in Cato's book. I suspect the wood is kumagong, which is used sometimes for Moro hilts. It is very dark and dense.

As to what your blade is, that's a bit of a mystery. The blade is very forward weighted, much like a Mandaya general purpose bolo. It does not correspond to the leaf-shape profile of a barung. I looked back at some of the archive pictures of Moro weapons plaques and found a somewhat similar example in my large plaque from the 1930s: see the bottom left item in the central panel here. Unfortunately, the examples are not named on this old handmade plaque. Nevertheless, the blade profile may once have been in the Moro repertoire of weapons or general purpose blades, as your example suggests.

Heavy, forward weighted blades are seen among other Filipino groups. I mentioned the Mandaya already, and I've seen similar Bagobo blades, but this type of blade is also common among the Ifugao groups and others in central and northern Luzon. I would not be surprised if there are Visayan and Bicolano versions also. The design seems well suited to heavy chopping.

As to what this knife/sword might have been called, I don't know. I suspect it may have been made in Zamboanga.

drac2k · 24th August 2023, 04:02 PM

Ian thank you and others for your insightful comments. Here is another weapon that I believe was collected at the same time; maybe it can at least help date the item.

kai · 24th August 2023, 09:27 PM

Neat old barung, indeed! Dimensions?

Tausug, 19th c.

Nice scabbard with damaged tip; I'd believe that the thread covering it is a later addition.

I don't think it places much weight on dating the other piece - apparently a good ol' collection though.

Regards,
Kai

kai · 24th August 2023, 09:45 PM

Quote:

The max. width at the base of the spine is a 1/4"

That's on the thin side considering the blade length.

Quote:

the wood is very dense and heavy, more so than any mahogany that I am familiar with and it does not appear to be stained.

Great, pics can be deceiving! Sounds like kamagong, indeed.

If you compare the carving quality of both hilts, I still believe there is a difference which might be best explained by different periods, especially considering that the typical barung is a working piece while the naga hilt certainly has status function.

Maybe the cosmoline contributed to the color of the bone inserts.

Regards,
Kai

drac2k · 25th August 2023, 04:08 AM

The barong blade is 17" long and 2 5/8" at its widest. Even though the handle wasn't covered in cosmoline, it was dirty and I'm sure some of it rubbed on, so the bone inserts certainly could have been stained by it.
Thanks for the additional information.

David · 25th August 2023, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

David, Jose's mention of "damaging" was an autocorrection glitch when trying to type kamagong...

As per Jose's post #10.

24th August 2023, 04:02 PM	#4
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,187	Ian thank you and others for your insightful comments. Here is another weapon that I believe was collected at the same time; maybe it can at least help date the item. Attached Images

24th August 2023, 04:11 AM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,187	The max. width at the base of the spine is a 1/4"; the wood is very dense and heavy, more so than any mahogany that I am familiar with and it does not appear to be stained. The scabbard is not of the same quality as the sword so it could be a replacement sheath or maybe just like some beautiful kampilans with very crude breakaway scabbards for combat. Tomorrow I will post a barong that came from the same collection, covered in the same cosmoline grease, which indicates that they were collected at the same time; maybe the barong can help date the other item. Thanks for all of the comments and the great pictures!

24th August 2023, 11:37 AM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,049	Hi drac, That's an interesting old piece. The naga hilt is an unusual item and very similar to the one in Cato's book. I suspect the wood is kumagong, which is used sometimes for Moro hilts. It is very dark and dense. As to what your blade is, that's a bit of a mystery. The blade is very forward weighted, much like a Mandaya general purpose bolo. It does not correspond to the leaf-shape profile of a barung. I looked back at some of the archive pictures of Moro weapons plaques and found a somewhat similar example in my large plaque from the 1930s: see the bottom left item in the central panel here. Unfortunately, the examples are not named on this old handmade plaque. Nevertheless, the blade profile may once have been in the Moro repertoire of weapons or general purpose blades, as your example suggests. Heavy, forward weighted blades are seen among other Filipino groups. I mentioned the Mandaya already, and I've seen similar Bagobo blades, but this type of blade is also common among the Ifugao groups and others in central and northern Luzon. I would not be surprised if there are Visayan and Bicolano versions also. The design seems well suited to heavy chopping. As to what this knife/sword might have been called, I don't know. I suspect it may have been made in Zamboanga.

24th August 2023, 09:27 PM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,228	Neat old barung, indeed! Dimensions? Tausug, 19th c. Nice scabbard with damaged tip; I'd believe that the thread covering it is a later addition. I don't think it places much weight on dating the other piece - apparently a good ol' collection though. Regards, Kai

25th August 2023, 04:08 AM	#7
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,187	The barong blade is 17" long and 2 5/8" at its widest. Even though the handle wasn't covered in cosmoline, it was dirty and I'm sure some of it rubbed on, so the bone inserts certainly could have been stained by it. Thanks for the additional information.