Is it a real sword or a fantasy??

Kubur · 8th February 2017, 02:43 PM

Is it a real sword or a fantasy??
Like a cleaver / pala... should be a fantasy...

drac2k · 8th February 2017, 02:58 PM

First, let me say that it is a very cool piece. I think it is a fantasy sword, if for no other reason than the finger loop is above the guard instead of below it, which kind of defeats the purpose of the guard.

Roland_M · 8th February 2017, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Is it a real sword or a fantasy??
Like a cleaver / pala... should be a fantasy...

The strange yelman and the curious point give enough clues to say: modern fantasy sword.

Best wishes,
Roland

Oliver Pinchot · 8th February 2017, 04:37 PM

Would it be possible to see detailed pics?

ariel · 8th February 2017, 05:07 PM

At first glance, my reaction is " Far too elaborate for a "fantasy".
A ring outside the crossguard doesn't bother me very much: European ( German, Polish etc) swords had a similar feature on the side.
Intriguing....

Tim Simmons · 8th February 2017, 05:12 PM

I second that. Better pics would help. The ring is in the right place under the back of the sword. it would very hard indeed for an opponent to severe the finger.

Oliver Pinchot · 8th February 2017, 05:14 PM

I asked because it shows Spanish Colonial, Ottoman and Moroccan characteristics which could well have been conflated in a latter 19th century Moroccan environment.

Battara · 8th February 2017, 07:11 PM

Although it looks fantasy to me, the ring could be in the right place depending one how you would hold it. Some Spanish swords have a ring in this same place, which does also make me think Spain as well.

kronckew · 8th February 2017, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battara

Although it looks fantasy to me, the ring could be in the right place depending one how you would hold it. Some Spanish swords have a ring in this same place, which does also make me think Spain as well.

so, in spanish, it's an espada ancha

many early european swords/rapiers were held with a finger over the crossguard protected by a loop, some less protective than this one.

looks like a nice hunting bone chopper, part of a gamekeeper's trousse? dressing a deer can get slippery, a ring would help. ditto if dismembering a human. would make a nice side-arm. i note it hangs edge up in it's scabbard. (fernando cross posted at the same time i edited this -GMTA

)

fernando · 8th February 2017, 07:46 PM

If it is not a fantasy, it certainly is a whimsy weapon.
Note the scabbard suspension rings on the convex side ... Shaska style ?

mross · 8th February 2017, 07:52 PM

Can you tell if it's forged or stock removal? My first guess is forged but can't tell for sure.

kronckew · 8th February 2017, 07:56 PM

i had been thinkling of some rather fanciful german troussen like these:

broadaxe · 8th February 2017, 09:58 PM

"Fantasy" is not necessarily a bad word. There is a huge market for modern well-made custom swords, outside the circles of ethnographic weapons. This one appears to be such a sword, it was probably pretty costly as new.

machinist · 8th February 2017, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Note the scabbard suspension rings on the convex side ... Shaska style ?

This struck me also, looking at some features, especially in the construction of the scabbard I think that this being made by one of the modern Caucasus swordsmiths whose lovely work is often passed on ebay as vintage may be added to the possibilities. Their work is usually traditional but some will make whatever sells.
If it had a lot of niello I would be more certain

Roland_M · 9th February 2017, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

Is it a real sword or a fantasy??
Like a cleaver / pala... should be a fantasy...

Hello,

I was sure, that I already have seen the point of this sword. It took some hours but now I know where. It is the point of a European medieval cleaver or falchion, see the picture.
I know this point from the "Mount and Blade" game, it's one of the most powerful weapons.
So the point of your sword seems to be inspired by a very old European type.

best wishes,
Roland

David R · 9th February 2017, 10:31 PM

Certainly a "bespoke" piece. I would be happy to own it whatever the date it was made.

ariel · 9th February 2017, 11:07 PM

Roland,
Bizarre blades from Maciejowski Bible serve as an inspiration for scores of "Hobbit" fans. But all actual examples of their bladesmithing I've seen can not bite ankles of this puppy's sophistication.

Only the actual owner of this masterpiece can assess the age.
IMHO, it might be cheaper to buy a wootz Shamshir than to order an identical copy.

David · 9th February 2017, 11:13 PM

I've been watching this thread with great interest hoping someone came up with a good answer here.
I will say, just from my own perspective (and this is certainly just semantics on y part) that i would not call this a "fantasy sword". When i do think about "fantasy" blades what springs to mind are cheap, mass produced blades that generally are made at best from 420 steel and are inspired mostly from movies and video games. This, on the other hand, seems to be a hand forged (perhaps) one-off piece that involves some refined level of craft and while exotic it is hardly over the top in its design. Probably a contemporary piece, but a lovely one at that.
Keep digging gentleman and perhaps we will find some interesting answers.
BTW Kubur, where did you source this photo from?

fernando · 10th February 2017, 11:35 AM

In my humble perspective, whether you call it a decorative, a fantasy, an exotic or even a bespoke piece, it certainly wasn't forged to be a 'real sword'. Inspired on whatever original to serve as its muse, it could have less of that than in its autor giving wings to his imagination; resulting more in an object than in a serious weapon.
But then, as se say in my whereabouts, you don't discuss tastes

.

Kubur · 10th February 2017, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

BTW Kubur, where did you source this photo from?

I really don't know, just picked up on google.
I don't even know if it's a photo... It might be a very well done 3d model for a video game... Nowadays it's difficult to make the difference...
A lot of things are unrealistic such as the suspension rings and the guard...

fernando · 10th February 2017, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kubur

I really don't know, just picked up on google.
I don't even know if it's a photo... It might be a very well done 3d model for a video game... Nowadays it's difficult to make the difference...
A lot of things are unrealistic such as the suspension rings and the guard...

So ...

fernando · 10th February 2017, 02:43 PM

This is how you would have to hang this thing from your waist; a bit unhandy, i guess ...

.

mross · 10th February 2017, 05:20 PM

Still can't tell if forged or stock removal, if not in hand somewhere we will never know, but not really relevant for real vs fantasy. I was just curious. What I do find relevant is that bump on the spine to me would preclude being able to draw the blade quickly. So unless the user is carrying it around in hand all the time, they would tend to have a very short life expectancy.

kronckew · 10th February 2017, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mross

...I was just curious. What I do find relevant is that bump on the spine to me would preclude being able to draw the blade quickly. So unless the user is carrying it around in hand all the time, they would tend to have a very short life expectancy.

it's much like a langeseax, and may be was intended to be worn in the small of your back & edge up. wonder if the side is open from the bump to the throat to make up for the bump. the finger ring would help to haul it out.

Ian · 11th February 2017, 03:48 AM

The lighting and shadows cast by the two items in the subject of this thread look very odd and inconsistent. It does not look like a real photograph to me.

Ian.

machinist · 12th February 2017, 06:36 AM

Found it http://astalo.deviantart.com/art/My-precious-281649270 An artist on Deviant Art made it for himself supposedly. Ians comment made me curious and I was sure he was right and we were all fooled so I did a reverse google image search and this piece has appeared on seemingly thousands of sites mostly about gamers and zomby apocalypses

Looking at his gallery is jawdropping http://ugo-serrano.deviantart.com/gallery/

Tim Simmons · 12th February 2017, 08:33 AM

At least we did ask for better pictures before any verdict.

fernando · 12th February 2017, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by machinist

... and we were all fooled ...

Make it a figure of speech

.

ariel · 13th February 2017, 01:27 PM

I do not think we were fooled: the issue was not about quality , but rather of style and age. Rembrandt, Van Gogh and Dali come to mind:-)

David · 13th February 2017, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by machinist

Found it http://astalo.deviantart.com/art/My-precious-281649270 An artist on Deviant Art made it for himself supposedly. Ians comment made me curious and I was sure he was right and we were all fooled so I did a reverse google image search and this piece has appeared on seemingly thousands of sites mostly about gamers and zomby apocalypses

Looking at his gallery is jawdropping http://ugo-serrano.deviantart.com/gallery/

Great work. Which reverse image search did you use? When i used tineye.com i came up with a bunch of the zombie gamers, but couldn't find the source image.
No offense to Ian here, but apparently he was not right since it does seem this is indeed an actual photograph of an actual sword. I believe most of us were fairly certain this was a modern piece using past influences which does now seem to be the case. This guy is a rather talented contemporary metal smith with a flair for ancient styles. Pretty fantastic really, though obviously not what we do here.

8th February 2017, 02:43 PM	#1
Kubur Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 2,145	Is it a real sword or a fantasy?? Is it a real sword or a fantasy?? Like a cleaver / pala... should be a fantasy... Attached Images

8th February 2017, 07:56 PM	#12
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,150	i had been thinkling of some rather fanciful german troussen like these: Attached Images

10th February 2017, 02:43 PM	#22
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	Bizarre This is how you would have to hang this thing from your waist; a bit unhandy, i guess ... . Attached Images

12th February 2017, 06:36 AM	#26
machinist Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 93	Found it http://astalo.deviantart.com/art/My-precious-281649270 An artist on Deviant Art made it for himself supposedly. Ians comment made me curious and I was sure he was right and we were all fooled so I did a reverse google image search and this piece has appeared on seemingly thousands of sites mostly about gamers and zomby apocalypses Looking at his gallery is jawdropping http://ugo-serrano.deviantart.com/gallery/ Last edited by machinist; 12th February 2017 at 06:51 AM.

8th February 2017, 02:58 PM	#2
drac2k Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 1,174	First, let me say that it is a very cool piece. I think it is a fantasy sword, if for no other reason than the finger loop is above the guard instead of below it, which kind of defeats the purpose of the guard.

8th February 2017, 04:37 PM	#4
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 456	Would it be possible to see detailed pics?

8th February 2017, 05:07 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	At first glance, my reaction is " Far too elaborate for a "fantasy". A ring outside the crossguard doesn't bother me very much: European ( German, Polish etc) swords had a similar feature on the side. Intriguing....

8th February 2017, 05:12 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	I second that. Better pics would help. The ring is in the right place under the back of the sword. it would very hard indeed for an opponent to severe the finger.

8th February 2017, 05:14 PM	#7
Oliver Pinchot Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 456	I asked because it shows Spanish Colonial, Ottoman and Moroccan characteristics which could well have been conflated in a latter 19th century Moroccan environment.

8th February 2017, 07:11 PM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,139	Although it looks fantasy to me, the ring could be in the right place depending one how you would hold it. Some Spanish swords have a ring in this same place, which does also make me think Spain as well.

8th February 2017, 07:46 PM	#10
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	If it is not a fantasy, it certainly is a whimsy weapon. Note the scabbard suspension rings on the convex side ... Shaska style ?

8th February 2017, 07:52 PM	#11
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Can you tell if it's forged or stock removal? My first guess is forged but can't tell for sure.

8th February 2017, 09:58 PM	#13
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 332	"Fantasy" is not necessarily a bad word. There is a huge market for modern well-made custom swords, outside the circles of ethnographic weapons. This one appears to be such a sword, it was probably pretty costly as new.

9th February 2017, 10:31 PM	#16
David R Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,051	Certainly a "bespoke" piece. I would be happy to own it whatever the date it was made.

9th February 2017, 11:07 PM	#17
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Roland, Bizarre blades from Maciejowski Bible serve as an inspiration for scores of "Hobbit" fans. But all actual examples of their bladesmithing I've seen can not bite ankles of this puppy's sophistication. Only the actual owner of this masterpiece can assess the age. IMHO, it might be cheaper to buy a wootz Shamshir than to order an identical copy.

9th February 2017, 11:13 PM	#18
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,023	I've been watching this thread with great interest hoping someone came up with a good answer here. I will say, just from my own perspective (and this is certainly just semantics on y part) that i would not call this a "fantasy sword". When i do think about "fantasy" blades what springs to mind are cheap, mass produced blades that generally are made at best from 420 steel and are inspired mostly from movies and video games. This, on the other hand, seems to be a hand forged (perhaps) one-off piece that involves some refined level of craft and while exotic it is hardly over the top in its design. Probably a contemporary piece, but a lovely one at that. Keep digging gentleman and perhaps we will find some interesting answers. BTW Kubur, where did you source this photo from?

10th February 2017, 11:35 AM	#19
fernando Lead Moderator European Armoury Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,638	In my humble perspective, whether you call it a decorative, a fantasy, an exotic or even a bespoke piece, it certainly wasn't forged to be a 'real sword'. Inspired on whatever original to serve as its muse, it could have less of that than in its autor giving wings to his imagination; resulting more in an object than in a serious weapon. But then, as se say in my whereabouts, you don't discuss tastes .

10th February 2017, 05:20 PM	#23
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Still can't tell if forged or stock removal, if not in hand somewhere we will never know, but not really relevant for real vs fantasy. I was just curious. What I do find relevant is that bump on the spine to me would preclude being able to draw the blade quickly. So unless the user is carrying it around in hand all the time, they would tend to have a very short life expectancy.

11th February 2017, 03:48 AM	#25
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,023	The lighting and shadows cast by the two items in the subject of this thread look very odd and inconsistent. It does not look like a real photograph to me. Ian.

12th February 2017, 08:33 AM	#27
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,736	At least we did ask for better pictures before any verdict.

13th February 2017, 01:27 PM	#29
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I do not think we were fooled: the issue was not about quality , but rather of style and age. Rembrandt, Van Gogh and Dali come to mind:-)