Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 22nd December 2018, 09:14 PM   #1
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default Strange sumatran?? dagger

Hello,
I recently acquired this dagger in a lot of various indonesian daggers.

For me the general look is similar to that of a Gunong, but the whole construction of the handle and scabbard (typical red wood and buffalo horn) is characteristic of Sumatra.
The blade is made of steel and the guard in brass.

Blade length : 16cm

Unfortunatly mice love the buffalo horn....
Attached Images
 
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2018, 09:51 PM   #2
David
Keris forum moderator
 
David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 7,012
Default

I am uncertain about the origin of the blade, but my general feeling is that this hilt has been salvaged off a Sumatran pedang. Hard to say why this all came together, but it seems like a mix-and-match.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd December 2018, 11:17 PM   #3
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

Yes David, I also feel that the handle comes from a pedang.
The blade also seems to be a re-use, maybe an old reworked spear point?
The sheath seems to have been specially made for this assembly.
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 07:29 AM   #4
Sajen
Member
 
Sajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Germany, Dortmund
Posts: 8,417
Default

Hi Severin,

I agree with David, the handle is from a pedang which could be also from Lombok instead of from Sumatra. The dagger is a constrcut IMVHO, a native has build up his own dagger from pieces, good possible that the blade is from a tombak but could be a cut down pedang blade as well.

Regards,
Detlef
Sajen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 12:52 PM   #5
CharlesS
Member
 
CharlesS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Greenville, NC
Posts: 1,855
Default

I agree with the statements above. The blade almost looks like it belongs on a Moro punal/gunong.
CharlesS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 02:42 PM   #6
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,213
Post

Hello Séverin,

Quote:
For me the general look is similar to that of a Gunong, but the whole construction of the handle and scabbard (typical red wood and buffalo horn) is characteristic of Sumatra.
As already suggested, the hilt seems to be recycled from a pedang. It does look Sumatran rather than Lombok to me. Also the tip of the scabbard hints at a Malay origin

I like the notion that the blade could be a recycled tombak. Please take pics if you ever disassemble the piece. How thick is the blade at the base? It seems quite sturdy, isn't it?

BTW, the flow of lines does not really vibe with Moro punal IMHO. However, the no-nonsense blade is somewhat reminiscent of plain Moro pieces, indeed.


Quote:
Unfortunatly mice love the buffalo horn....
Rats and humans seem to be the more likely culprits - washing the hands after dinner helps to reduce the risks of hungry rodents gnawing away at hilts...

BTW, the "hole" at the scabbard mouth looks weird - any idea what happened there?

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 04:38 PM   #7
Athanase
Member
 
Athanase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Paris (France)
Posts: 403
Default

Hello everybody. Thank you for your opinions.

Kai, it's not a hole but the rest of a hook for the belt (and that was probably a little longer before) .

The maximum thickness of the base blade (juste before brass gard) is 5.3mm and 1.9mm at 1cm from the tip.
Athanase is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 05:03 PM   #8
kai
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,213
Post

Hello Séverin,

You're welcome!


Quote:
it's not a hole but the rest of a hook for the belt (and that was probably a little longer before) .
Uuuh, the horrid third dimension...

That's a quite unusual feature, especially with small daggers!


Quote:
The maximum thickness of the base blade (juste before brass gard) is 5.3mm and 1.9mm at 1cm from the tip.
Less than I expected. Well within the range of Moro punal/gunong - neither the blade nor the scabbard support such an origin though.

Whether this really got adapted from a tombak might only be seen after disassembling the piece and possibly etching the blade; of course, there is no need to do so...

Regards,
Kai
kai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd December 2018, 08:02 PM   #9
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesS
I agree with the statements above. The blade almost looks like it belongs on a Moro punal/gunong.
I was thinking the same thing!

Lots of trade in the area between both archipelagos.......
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.