Cup-hilted rapier

[qusko]

Originally Posted by fernando

What i actually meant to say is that i never saw these screws featuring such portruding heads, as being part of the decoration.
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Indeed not typical...

I've found some example with strange add on on the cup (on top of the screws)

[fernando]

Yes, a show off detail. I suspect that such example, like yours, is not a practical fighting sword, but one to adorn the attire of a wealthy owner. Would you agree ?

[Jim McDougall]

As Fernando well observes, most swords such as rapiers, small swords were fashionable accoutrements of dress, and as status oriented and representative of a mans honor and chivalry embellishment and decoration was important.

While a sword 'could' be used to fight, most often they were worn in a deterrent sense, to display the formidability of the wearer.

There are various methods of structure in cuphilts, but it seems the screws usually entered the cup through the bottom into the pas d'ane rings passing through the guardopolvo. There were of course two as here, but it does seem as with most weapons the character of elements such as screws depended on availability. Pommels too were elements often interchanged, and I have seen many cases where these are incongruent with the hilt style overall.

These unusual domed or the open ring seem like types seen in the locks of firearms of these periods to me (though I admit that is a lay opinion as I dont know gun works that well).

These swords were often reworked in their working lives, obviously especially if damaged, but clearly this had the wire redone. Just wondering if screws from gun locks might have been an option during refurbishing.

[fernando]

Jim, perhaps a significant fixing method other than the screws entering the cup from the outside and meet (say) the pas d'ane, is the one in that the cup is welded to the quillons. I assume such system is more seen in Portuguese swords, but nevertheless to be taken into account.
Currently, from the four cup hilts i have hanging in my wall, three have the cups welded to the quillons. Not counting with equal number in my archives, which i timely deaccessed.
Rings in locks of firearms are completely a different business. While fixing screws in sword cups serve basically on a permanent basis (except for sporadic maintenance ?), those in (flint) gun locks are more handy that vented head screws and serve to often unscrew to change the flint, whether worn or broken.

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[Jim McDougall]

Actually these were more what I was thinking of. While earlier than these cup hilts, these as types were surely still around.

Those rapiers of yours are amazing Fernando!

[fernando]

Ah ... i have a copy of that chart, which Michael posted here 15 years ago, approaching a gun screws theme. My Deutsch is zero, but i would bet the example i sign is the early version of the one i have shown above.


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[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by fernando

Ah ... i have a copy of that chart, which Michael posted here 15 years ago, approaching a gun screws theme. My Deutsch is zero, but i would bet the example i sign is the early version of the one i have shown above.


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Voila!