New Rock Crystal Pesh-kabz

TVV · 26th February 2020, 04:56 AM

Very impressive piece, congratulations! On p.265 of the Al Sabah catalogue there is simply a rock crystal hilt. There are two more crystal hilted pesh-kabz in the same book, one with a hilt of one solid piece and one with a full tang and scales of rick crystal. I took quick pictures of those few pages for reference.

Regards,
Teodor

mariusgmioc · 26th February 2020, 07:10 AM

Double posting...

mariusgmioc · 26th February 2020, 07:21 AM

Congratulations! Very beautiful pieces.

Classic Indian wootz blade, probably early 19 century, with more recent (probably around 1900) hilt.

Most daggers with one piece rock hilts are not suitable for combat use as the joint between the hilt and the blade cannot withstand strong shocks, and the hilts themselves are prone to cracking. They became popular around 1900 when daggers gained more of a decorative/status role.

My two cents...

mahratt · 26th February 2020, 12:52 PM

Congratulations.

Great dagger. I was offered this dagger a few years ago.
But at that time already I was exclusively collecting arms and armor of Afghanistan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mariusgmioc

Classic Indian wootz blade, probably early 19 century, with more recent (probably around 1900) hilt.

Most daggers with one piece rock hilts are not suitable for combat use as the joint between the hilt and the blade cannot withstand strong shocks, and the hilts themselves are prone to cracking. They became popular around 1900 when daggers gained more of a decorative/status role.

I agree with Marius.

ariel · 26th February 2020, 02:03 PM

I had to go back and forth to figure out which one is which:-((
Do both of them have chamfered edges? Those were often seen on Afghani pesh kabzes , including Mahsud ch’huras. Blades of that nature were produced en masse and hilted and rehilted repeatedly with whatever handle happened to be available for irrespective of their age and origin.

Just looking at the pics, I am not sure whether wootz on the smaller one is modern. Wootz patterns varied enormously and while a classy Kara-taban is highly likely to be old and Persian, the indistinct and undistinguished ones could have been made any time and anywhere. Attaching a handle is the easiest part.

Single piece rock crystal handles had an unsolvable problem: they were designed for beauty, but strong, large, crudely patinated tangs ruined the image. They had to make their tangs short and skinny ( mouse tail), with all the mechanical problems of Indonesian Kris, only worse. I fully agree with Marius: those were status symbols devoid of any practical value short of spearing a strawberry.

I would be very cautious relying on al Sabah book: they apparently had an agenda to date and attribute their collection items according to the wishes of the owner.

Jens Nordlunde · 26th February 2020, 03:57 PM

Here is one of my crystal hilts. Not with a Pesh Kabz blade - but still a nice hilt.
In one of his books Robert Elgood mentions that Belgien exported glass hilts to India.

Jens Nordlunde · 26th February 2020, 04:17 PM

Here is a Pesh Kabz, but without a crystal hilt.
The strange thing is, that I have had it for decades, and never seen this kind of decoration on other weapons. Some time ago I saw a picture on the net of a shamshir with a hilt with a lions head, and decorated in the same way.

mariusgmioc · 26th February 2020, 05:15 PM

My crystal hilted...

ariel · 26th February 2020, 10:21 PM

Jens,

For all practical purposes the last one looks like Afghani ch’hura ( blade) with Indian handle. Nothing surprising: there had never been a sharp impenetrable border between the two areas. A lot of Makhsud lived ( and still live) in Pakhtunhwa province of what is now Pakistan ( formerly part of Raj India).
Such borderline areas are spread all over the World: Central Asian Khanates and Afghanistan, Greeks in Ottoman Anatolia and Bulgarian Turks, Oman/ Baluchistan etc. That’s why attributing ethnic/ cultural objects of 18-19 century to current national borders makes no particular sense.

26th February 2020, 04:56 AM	#1
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,601	Very impressive piece, congratulations! On p.265 of the Al Sabah catalogue there is simply a rock crystal hilt. There are two more crystal hilted pesh-kabz in the same book, one with a hilt of one solid piece and one with a full tang and scales of rick crystal. I took quick pictures of those few pages for reference. Regards, Teodor Attached Images

26th February 2020, 07:10 AM	#2
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,882	Double posting... Last edited by mariusgmioc; 26th February 2020 at 07:22 AM.

26th February 2020, 02:03 PM	#5
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I had to go back and forth to figure out which one is which:-(( Do both of them have chamfered edges? Those were often seen on Afghani pesh kabzes , including Mahsud ch’huras. Blades of that nature were produced en masse and hilted and rehilted repeatedly with whatever handle happened to be available for irrespective of their age and origin. Just looking at the pics, I am not sure whether wootz on the smaller one is modern. Wootz patterns varied enormously and while a classy Kara-taban is highly likely to be old and Persian, the indistinct and undistinguished ones could have been made any time and anywhere. Attaching a handle is the easiest part. Single piece rock crystal handles had an unsolvable problem: they were designed for beauty, but strong, large, crudely patinated tangs ruined the image. They had to make their tangs short and skinny ( mouse tail), with all the mechanical problems of Indonesian Kris, only worse. I fully agree with Marius: those were status symbols devoid of any practical value short of spearing a strawberry. I would be very cautious relying on al Sabah book: they apparently had an agenda to date and attribute their collection items according to the wishes of the owner. Last edited by ariel; 26th February 2020 at 04:29 PM.

26th February 2020, 03:57 PM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Here is one of my crystal hilts. Not with a Pesh Kabz blade - but still a nice hilt. In one of his books Robert Elgood mentions that Belgien exported glass hilts to India. Attached Images

26th February 2020, 04:17 PM	#7
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,713	Here is a Pesh Kabz, but without a crystal hilt. The strange thing is, that I have had it for decades, and never seen this kind of decoration on other weapons. Some time ago I saw a picture on the net of a shamshir with a hilt with a lions head, and decorated in the same way. Attached Images

26th February 2020, 07:21 AM	#3
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,882	Congratulations! Very beautiful pieces. Classic Indian wootz blade, probably early 19 century, with more recent (probably around 1900) hilt. Most daggers with one piece rock hilts are not suitable for combat use as the joint between the hilt and the blade cannot withstand strong shocks, and the hilts themselves are prone to cracking. They became popular around 1900 when daggers gained more of a decorative/status role. My two cents...

26th February 2020, 05:15 PM	#8
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,882	My crystal hilted... Attached Images

26th February 2020, 10:21 PM	#9
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	Jens, For all practical purposes the last one looks like Afghani ch’hura ( blade) with Indian handle. Nothing surprising: there had never been a sharp impenetrable border between the two areas. A lot of Makhsud lived ( and still live) in Pakhtunhwa province of what is now Pakistan ( formerly part of Raj India). Such borderline areas are spread all over the World: Central Asian Khanates and Afghanistan, Greeks in Ottoman Anatolia and Bulgarian Turks, Oman/ Baluchistan etc. That’s why attributing ethnic/ cultural objects of 18-19 century to current national borders makes no particular sense.