Walloon, not really?

[Jim McDougall]

While the focus on makers marks, specifically the 'konigskopf' (=kings head), is in some sense a digression, it is salient in some manner as pertains to these sword forms.

The 'kings head' is well known initially to the Wundes' family of Solingen from late 16th c. into 18th, however in mid to latter 18th it was adopted by the dominant Solingen Weyersberg dynasty, in which there seems to have been abundant variations. In the pages from "The Plug Bayonet" by the late Roger Evans, the mysteries of these often almost wildly variant images of kings head marks seem to have been used by different family members in different periods. Often these dies would become worn or broken, or in cases simply revised in degree to signify individual note.
There is the suggestion of possible use by the German makers who had gone to England in early 18th century to Hounslow using these Solingen marks, just as with the 'running wolf' , however this seems unlikely.

Naturally there have always been cases where well established marks were purloined on other blades, which was a matter of notable disagreement and dispute, but ironically, many markings used in Solingen were spuriously used from other countries, esp. Spain. and the guild registered markings were notably monitored.

It is interesting that in the Wundes group of kings head marks there is one with reduced points of the 'crown' referring to it as a 'conventionalized' version. In the 17th c.. Kohl was using a very similar 'emperors head', so this I'm sure might be factored in.

The 'green man' image with crown was among the figures popular in English themes in hilt decoration early 17th c. (see "British Military Swords 1600-1660" Stuart Mowbray , 2013 for further reading.

Here I would note regarding the use of these 'walloon' type swords in Sweden is further supported by the fact that Casper Kohl of Solingen went to Wira in Sweden in 1630s and there brought in other Solingen smiths as well. As these types of swords were seemingly predominant in German manufacture it seems likely they were made there, as with note to issuance of these by Gustavus Adolphus. Perhaps this might account for the term attributing these in cases being 'Swedish swords'.

[M ELEY]

Here's my Wundes head marking from my Scottish basket hilt. Very similar to yours, Toaster-

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by M ELEY

Here's my Wundes head marking from my Scottish basket hilt. Very similar to yours, Toaster-

This is an amazing Scottish basket hilt of latter 17th c. and it seems had multiple kings head stamps in linear progression, which was another of the variable applications using this mark. Obviously not 'every' Scottish basket hilt had an ANDREA FERARA blade, though that was one of the most favored.

In these times, the Netherlands were one of the most prevalent entrepots of arms and blades from Germany were of course well known going into North England in notable quantity. This was likely the reason they often became termed colloquially 'Dutch' blades, when in fact 'Duetsche'.

With this being the case it does not seem surprising that the bilobate hilt arming swords which became collectively deemed 'walloons' were so widely popular in European armies, as often fully assembled swords were among commerce distributed through there.

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Here I would note regarding the use of these 'walloon' type swords in Sweden is further supported by the fact that Casper Kohl of Solingen went to Wira in Sweden in 1630s and there brought in other Solingen smiths as well. As these types of swords were seemingly predominant in German manufacture it seems likely they were made there, as with note to issuance of these by Gustavus Adolphus. Perhaps this might account for the term attributing these in cases being 'Swedish swords'.

Whilst it’s true that Gustavus Adolphus started domestic production of military swords in Wira in 1630s and brought Casper Kohl of Solingen for this purpose, there is no evidence that Walloon type swords were produced there. The following information is from Heribert Seitz’s Svärdet och Värjan som Armévapen (1955).

The first picture shows a Walloon type sword common in Central Europe of German origins from the later phase of the 30-year war which in German-speaking areas sometimes are called “Swedendegen” or if the blade is curved “Schwedensäbel.” The reason could be that the blade is engraved with Gustav Adolphus’s portrait.

At the beginning of the 30-year war in 1620-30s Sweden imported most of its swords from the Netherlands (protestants). These are the Netherland-Swedish type some of which have a knuckle guard (pics 2, 3 and 4). These have cross guards and characteristic flat pear/heart shaped pommels.

Domestic production of swords in Sweden started in mid 1630s and and developed from the previously imported Netherland-Swedish type to a simple design cavalry sword at the end of the 30-year war (pics 5-6). This later developed into the soldier swords of the 1650-70s where the pommel became more spherical or onion shaped (pic 7).

From the above my impression is that the so called Walloon type sword was more prevalent on the continent than in Sweden where the Netherland-Swedish type dominated. I have seen no evidence that Walloon type swords were produced in Sweden. Only the first sword above is described as “Schwedendegen” in the book and is of German origins.

[Jim McDougall]

That is absolutely wonderful and detailed information Victrix! Thank you so much, and for listing the reference source. I know that Seitz is an excellent source for weapons from these regions but unfortunately do not have it.

I think your suggestion that the term 'Swedish sword' or 'saber' might be from the image of Gustavus Adolphus on the blade is quite plausible. In the case of Polish swords, certain forms are known by images of the contemporary rulers on the blades (I cannot think of the examples offhand, but the analogy was relevant).

[Victrix]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

That is absolutely wonderful and detailed information Victrix! Thank you so much, and for listing the reference source. I know that Seitz is an excellent source for weapons from these regions but unfortunately do not have it.

I think your suggestion that the term 'Swedish sword' or 'saber' might be from the image of Gustavus Adolphus on the blade is quite plausible. In the case of Polish swords, certain forms are known by images of the contemporary rulers on the blades (I cannot think of the examples offhand, but the analogy was relevant).

Jim it seems it’s mainly in Germany they were called “Swedish swords” (Schwedendegen) and they were mostly produced on the European continent (i.e. not locally in Sweden). Most of Gustavus Adolphus’s army consisted of foreign mercenaries (many famous Scotsmen included) and Germans who were his allieds. It’s possible that these German troops and mercenaries were issued with or were using Walloon type swords produced locally in Germany or nearby Netherlands.

Seitz’s book is excellent. It’s mostly in Swedish but has some captions in English. Its English sub-title is The History of the Swedish Army Sword 1500-1860. It’s occasionally available in local second hand bookshops.

Only a couple of weeks ago I was fortunate enough to attend a viewing of the armoury at Skokloster castle which is one of the largest arms collections in Europe dating from around the 30-year war. I was then able to see some of the swords in the book first hand. The collection belonged to Carl Gustaf Wrangel, one of the Swedish commanders in that war who amassed war booty and became fabulously wealthy.

[francantolin]

Originally Posted by Victrix

Jim it seems it’s mainly in Germany they were called “Swedish swords” (Schwedendegen) and they were mostly produced on the European continent (i.e. not locally in Sweden). Most of Gustavus Adolphus’s army consisted of foreign mercenaries (many famous Scotsmen included) and Germans who were his allieds. It’s possible that these German troops and mercenaries were issued with or were using Walloon type swords produced locally in Germany or nearby Netherlands.

Seitz’s book is excellent. It’s mostly in Swedish but has some captions in English. Its English sub-title is The History of the Swedish Army Sword 1500-1860. It’s occasionally available in local second hand bookshops.

Only a couple of weeks ago I was fortunate enough to attend a viewing of the armoury at Skokloster castle which is one of the largest arms collections in Europe dating from around the 30-year war. I was then able to see some of the swords in the book first hand. The collection belonged to Carl Gustaf Wrangel, one of the Swedish commanders in that war who amassed war booty and became fabulously wealthy.

Amazing !!
Thank you for sharing