Another Bali Keris

[David]

That's a very nice Bali keris.
I can't really comment too much on your cleaning job s you photo quality isn't really showing the details very well, but they are good enough to show you acquired a good keris.
Here is a thread that might give you more understanding of your hilt form.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=87972

[Pendita65]

Hi David,

thank you for the link it gives more understanding of the hilt, and yes i could not wait to post some pictures so artificial light is not always the best and also my phone takes less good pictures compared to my canon camera.

Regards, Martin

[A. G. Maisey]

A nice keris, in fact a very nice keris.

I think you will find the "stones" in the uwer are pastes.

[Pendita65]

Hello Mr. Maisey,

what you mean with pastes?, that they are made from glass? At least they are not plastic and the red stone has a spot that looks like agate.
And I am happy i was able to buy it in the auction together with the Keris in the first picture that somehow looks like a Frankenstein.

Regards, Martin

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, glass, but that's being a bit simple.

Paste glass is leaded glass & in antique jewellery it is quite collectable.

The little imitation stones that we find in Bali & Jawa keris dress are seldom true pastes, they're usually glass.

In Balinese art & ornamentation the end effect is important, the way that effect is achieved is not important. I have a royal quality Balinese keris hilt, 22K gold, exquisite workmanship, some of the stones are natural some are paste, one is glass, then there is one diamond also.

The uwer on this keris is of a type that virtually always has glass enhancements. Whether the stones are natural or imitation has absolutely no effect on value at all, unless those stones are of jewel quality, which is something rarely encountered.

The keris in the first photo is pretty OK too, wrongko looks like Tegal, looks like it needs a pendok.

[Pendita65]

Mr. Maisey,

The Tegal warangka and the gandar doesn't fit well my guess is that it is a replacement and the Keris does not fit so well. That's why i called it a Frankenstein.
But the warangka is a nice model, so it need some attention.

Regards, Martin

and yes i do understand your explanation off the pastes.

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Martin, I can see the poor fit of gandar to atasan, but does the keris fit into the scabbard acceptably?

In an older keris it is not at all unusual for a gandar to be replaced with another that does not fit so well, this is usually hidden under a pendok & if necessary the gandar itself is wrapped with cloth, or sometimes only paper.

[Pendita65]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

A nice keris, in fact a very nice keris.

I think you will find the "stones" in the uwer are pastes.

Hello Mr. Maisey,
i got the message from a member of the Dutch Keris that the scabbard with bands is most likely from Lombok and he gave the following description for the Keris: Dapur Jalak Ngore. Pamor Aiq Nglek. Pelet Mbelang Sapi (cow spot)

now i have a question, where Keris from Lombok also polished like they did in Bali in the 19th Century?

Regards, Martin

[David]

Originally Posted by Pendita65

Hello Mr. Maisey,
i got the message from a member of the Dutch Keris that the scabbard with bands is most likely from Lombok and he gave the following description for the Keris: Dapur Jalak Ngore. Pamor Aiq Nglek. Pelet Mbelang Sapi (cow spot)

now i have a question, where Keris from Lombok also polished like they did in Bali in the 19th Century?

Regards, Martin

Hi Martin. I'm sure Alan will be along to answer you, but i'll just add my two cents. I suppose if you have a strong need to categorize, this dhapur is very similar to Jalak Ngore, but understand that is a Javanese dhapur. In Bali they may very well have their own name for this form. I could be wrong, but i don't believe the Javanese Jalak Ngore would have such a defined center ridge as your blade.
I also have a keris that has one rattan band. I have never considered that made it a Lombok blade, but i'm not counting that out as a possible indicator. Does anyone else have knowledge of this. As for blade polish, i have seen blades identified as Lombok both with and without a polished surface. So i think it can go either way. I can't really tell for sure, but it looks like your blade was probably polished at some point.

[Pendita65]

Originally Posted by David

Hi Martin. I'm sure Alan will be along to answer you, but i'll just add my two cents. I suppose if you have a strong need to categorize, this dhapur is very similar to Jalak Ngore, but understand that is a Javanese dhapur. In Bali they may very well have their own name for this form. I could be wrong, but i don't believe the Javanese Jalak Ngore would have such a defined center ridge as your blade.
I also have a keris that has one rattan band. I have never considered that made it a Lombok blade, but i'm not counting that out as a possible indicator. Does anyone else have knowledge of this. As for blade polish, i have seen blades identified as Lombok both with and without a polished surface. So i think it can go either way. I can't really tell for sure, but it looks like your blade was probably polished at some point.

Thanks David,

only saw the message of Mr. Maisey, and yes the blade was nice polished in the past and i am happy it has still allmost 80% of its darknes of colouring in the past with realgar .

Regards, Martin

[jagabuwana]

Sheesh that Bali keris is very nice, Martin.

[A. G. Maisey]

Martin, the names used for keris dhapurs & pamors & everything else change from place to place & from time to time, nothing is graven in stone.

In the keris group that your Dutch friend associates with, this description might very well be accepted as correct, however, it is not correct in Bali, and probably can never be given a "correct" Balinese description for the simple reason that keris culture in Bali is not as structured as it is in Jawa, and as I have already commented, names change.

This description is given in Javanese, but even then, it is only approximate, jalak ngore is a Javanese dhapur, but it does not have ron dha nunut, I do not know the name of this dhapur in Balinese, I doubt if anybody does.
The pelet motif in Balinese could be taken as Mbelang Sampi (not sapi), but to my mind that's stretching things a bit, still, if we must give it a name this will fit. The word belang in Javanese means white spots or white speckling, in Balinese the spots of speckling do not need to be white, in Balinese, the prefix "m" is virtually inaudible in speech & it turns the root into a transitive verb.

I do not know pamor "aiq nglek", in fact, I do not know these two words in either Javanese or Balinese & cannot find either in any of my language resources. However, this pamor is a wos wutah type, & in Bali most people would give it as "ilining warih" = "flowing water".

"aiq" might be a typo for "air" = water; the root of "nglek" could be "klek" or "lek", klek I do not know, cannot find; "lek" has a number of meanings, the one I know relates to a visible moon.

The use of rotan bands to hold two parts of a scabbard together is pretty general throughout Maritime SE Asia, in Jawa/Bali it usually indicates that the scabbard has been made in a rural area. There was a Balinese colony on Lombok up until about 1894, keris made or used in this colony are usually indistinguishable from keris made on the mainland.

Yes, Balinese keris blades in Lombok were treated as Balinese blades on Bali itself.

Martin, a lot of things that out-of-society collectors believe about keris are not necessarily what people in the originating society believe, however, if these somewhat variant understandings permit people within a particular group to communicate with one another, it is really no big deal if there is some variation in understandings.

Its all part of the Name Game.

EDIT

Just now speaking with a native speaker of Javanese & I have been told that the word "klek" means for something to break with a snap, Javanese is a strongly onomatopoeic language, so words often sound like the thing that they refer to.
But I still cannot make any sense of this pamor name you've been given.

[Pendita65]

Mr. Maisey,

thank you so much, for this elaborate explanation it brings more in depth knowledge that educates me. It's a joy to gain more insight about the Keris.

Regards, Martin