Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 6th August 2020, 11:02 AM   #1
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,860
Default Ottoman hancer for translation

Hello,

Here is my friend's hancer/khanjar that I believe to be Ottoman (?).

Any opinions and of course the translation would be welcomed!

Marius
Attached Images
   
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2020, 03:23 PM   #2
Peter Andeweg
Member
 
Peter Andeweg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Vlissingen, Netherlands
Posts: 71
Default

An excellent example of a Turkish region Ottoman Khanjar. Dating from the mid 19th century.
Peter Andeweg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2020, 04:45 PM   #3
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 382
Default

It's a very well preserved piece.

What features make it Ottoman out side of an inscription in Turkish? Any ideas on a specific region of the empire (or as Peter indicates Anatolia), point of manufacture, or ethnic group? The more I learn the more tenuous my understanding of Ottoman is I'm not questioning the validity of anyone's opinion, just asking questions about the esoteric details of an Ottoman attribution.

The edges don't appear to have been maintained (or damage outside of a couple of small chips to what I believe is the main cutting edge). Were these weapons pure status symbol without martial purpose by the 19th century?

It seems the there is just a hint of the guard and the pommel curving back to the stem of the hilt something I had thought of as a Kurdish influence.

Thanks for any guidance out there.

Last edited by Interested Party; 7th August 2020 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Afterthoughts
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th August 2020, 05:12 PM   #4
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interested Party
What features make it Ottoman out side of an inscription in Turkish? Any ideas on a specific region of the empire (or as Peter indicates Anatolia), point of manufacture, or ethnic group? The more I learn the more tenuous my understanding of Ottoman is I'm not questioning the validity of anyone's opinion, just asking questions about the esoteric details of an Ottoman attribution. Thanks for any guidance out there.
Very legit question! And that's exactly why I put the question mark in my original posting.

And so far we don't even know if the inscription is in Turkish.

The shape of he hilt and blade look very Persian, yet the hilt is somehow different (hard to pinpoint how, but have a look at my poor attempt of a drawing), more like the hilts of some Kurdish daggers.


While the scabbard, which of course can be a latter replacement, is clearly Ottoman because of its style and decorations... in my eyes of course.
Attached Images
 
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th August 2020, 02:42 PM   #5
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,860
Default

Just a refresh for translation.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th August 2020, 06:42 AM   #6
Interested Party
Member
 
Interested Party's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Eastern Sierra
Posts: 382
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mariusgmioc
Just a refresh for translation.
Am I correct in believing that Kurdish hilts had prongs on the guard and pommel that point towards the hand, and hilts from the area that is now Iraq have a pommel and guard that are very rounded in cross section?
Attached Images
 
Interested Party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2020, 02:10 AM   #7
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,135
Default

Actually the prongs belong to the Albanians.

Kurds use a form of "I" hilt.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2020, 07:17 AM   #8
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,860
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battara
Actually the prongs belong to the Albanians.

Kurds use a form of "I" hilt.
It appears that hilts with prongs are not characteristic to Albania alone, but more generally to the Ottoman empire (see the link below, to mine that was made in Damascus).

Regarding the Kurdish daggers that I saw, they all have "I" shaped hilts similar to the one in the second drawing, but with oval cross-section instead of round. The dagger here, in the original posting could be Kurdish in my oppinion.


http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=25724

Last edited by mariusgmioc; 14th August 2020 at 07:35 AM.
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th August 2020, 10:21 AM   #9
kronckew
Member
 
kronckew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Room 101, Glos. UK
Posts: 4,145
Default

My wootz Kurdish Jambiyah for comparison, I too noted the OP's example as being very Kurdish looking.
Attached Images
 
kronckew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2020, 10:20 AM   #10
mariusgmioc
Member
 
mariusgmioc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Austria
Posts: 1,860
Default

Hello,

Still nobody o help me with translation?!
mariusgmioc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20th August 2020, 04:53 PM   #11
Rick
Vikingsword Staff
 
Rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,258
Smile

I too am curious Marius.
Rick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2020, 02:33 AM   #12
Saracen
Member
 
Saracen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 147
Default

Мне кажется что там нет текста, это имитация

It seems to me that there is no text, this is an imitation
Saracen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th August 2020, 08:21 PM   #13
kwiatek
Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 153
Default

I agree, Saracen
kwiatek is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.