European saber with Vietnamese mounts

Nick Wardigo · 31st December 2006, 06:00 AM

I can use some opinions on a new purchase I made last week. I believe it is a European blade and scabbard that has been dressed up in Vietnamese mounts (I apologize for using the dealer’s photos…I don’t have access to a digital camera at the moment). I suspect this once belonged to a French officer who was stationed in Indochina in the 19th century and had his weapon redressed locally for whatever reason.

Overall length in scabbard: 37 inches. Overall length out of scabbard: 34 inches. Length of blade: 27.5 inches. Width of spine at the forte: 5/16 inches.

The blade is obviously European with a lot of etching of decorative curlicues and whatnot. There appears to be a picture of drums and a banner. The letter “W” is stamped on the spine. I suspect that the blade is French, but I can’t find anything particularly French in the décor (such as French writing, a depiction of a French flag, etc.). This isn’t my area at all, so if anyone can contribute anything, I’d appreciate it.

The scabbard is metal and painted black…also European. But the throat, chape, and suspension mount are all brass and decorated with what appear to be typically Vietnamese motifs (dragons on the throat and chape). The guard is an elongated octagon, also decorated with dragons, and a long ferrule covers the first third of the handle, studded with five settings with stones. Two stones are black, two are clear, and one is missing. They are flush with the settings, and they may be glass.

The handle is a single piece of elephant ivory, very beautifully carved with a textured pattern. There is a stone on the pommel, which appears to be a replacement (in fact, it came off in transit). I would expect that this once had a brass cap that matched the other fittings.

I present all of my ideas of Vietnamese origin with a grain of salt. While the motifs of the fittings certainly APPEAR to be Vietnamese, the overall suite doesn’t exactly match anything I’ve seen before. The octagonal guard is odd, and the European blade is almost unheard of. Carved handles are common on the nicer kiem and guom, but I’ve never seen one without the longevity symbol (shou) carved into it. Of course, if this was intended for a French officer, this may explain the lack of the shou, or any other of the Buddhist iconography that is so common on Vietnamese arms. The short of it is, if anyone has any other ideas, I’d love to hear them.

Thanks.

RhysMichael · 31st December 2006, 02:13 PM

An interesting piece. The guard and hilt may suggest Tonkin. I hope Phillip or Scott see this they I am sure would have some good input on this.

Philip · 1st January 2007, 07:04 AM

This saber was mounted up as a type of "guom" (narrow-bladed Vietnamese saber) with an open hilt (i.e. without knucklebow) and downcurving "pistol grip" handle. For the most part, it is a classic example of the genre, and let me quote a description by Charles Buttin of an analogous piece sold by the now-defunct Anderson Galleries in New York, 14/15 May 1926, Sale No. 2076, lot 204

"....Indo-Chinese, 18th century, Curved sword. The blade with lateral channel is of European make, it bears marks of four crosses and the date 1764. The octagonal guard is of copper, silver enriched. The hilt, silver-mounted, is of old ivory carved in octagons, squares, and a leaf. The silver-mounted scabbard of native wood , is encrusted in mother-of-pearl with birds, flowers, butterflies, bats, fruit, and leaves. Length about 82cm"

The sword, which sold for the princely sum of $45, is depicted sheathed in a B/W group photo of several lots. The profile of the hilt is quite similar to that on Nick's example, as is the shape of the scabbard fittings. The main point of departure is the material of the sheath itself. The auction lot has a scabbard of purely traditional design and workmanship, whereas Nick's is metal.

One thing about Nick's specimen that is interesting and atypical for Vietnamese weapons is the use of gemstones as decoration on the metal fittings.

RhysMichael · 1st January 2007, 01:11 PM

Great Information, thanks Philip

Nick Wardigo · 8th January 2007, 05:03 AM

Thanks for the information.

Sorry for bumping this to the top, but I'm still wondering if anyone out there can help me identify the blade. Does anyone know if this might be a French saber pattern?

Paul Digard · 8th January 2007, 07:15 AM

Hi Nick

Do you have any close up photos of the blade and its markings you could post?

Paul

31st December 2006, 06:00 AM	#1
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	European saber with Vietnamese mounts I can use some opinions on a new purchase I made last week. I believe it is a European blade and scabbard that has been dressed up in Vietnamese mounts (I apologize for using the dealer’s photos…I don’t have access to a digital camera at the moment). I suspect this once belonged to a French officer who was stationed in Indochina in the 19th century and had his weapon redressed locally for whatever reason. Overall length in scabbard: 37 inches. Overall length out of scabbard: 34 inches. Length of blade: 27.5 inches. Width of spine at the forte: 5/16 inches. The blade is obviously European with a lot of etching of decorative curlicues and whatnot. There appears to be a picture of drums and a banner. The letter “W” is stamped on the spine. I suspect that the blade is French, but I can’t find anything particularly French in the décor (such as French writing, a depiction of a French flag, etc.). This isn’t my area at all, so if anyone can contribute anything, I’d appreciate it. The scabbard is metal and painted black…also European. But the throat, chape, and suspension mount are all brass and decorated with what appear to be typically Vietnamese motifs (dragons on the throat and chape). The guard is an elongated octagon, also decorated with dragons, and a long ferrule covers the first third of the handle, studded with five settings with stones. Two stones are black, two are clear, and one is missing. They are flush with the settings, and they may be glass. The handle is a single piece of elephant ivory, very beautifully carved with a textured pattern. There is a stone on the pommel, which appears to be a replacement (in fact, it came off in transit). I would expect that this once had a brass cap that matched the other fittings. I present all of my ideas of Vietnamese origin with a grain of salt. While the motifs of the fittings certainly APPEAR to be Vietnamese, the overall suite doesn’t exactly match anything I’ve seen before. The octagonal guard is odd, and the European blade is almost unheard of. Carved handles are common on the nicer kiem and guom, but I’ve never seen one without the longevity symbol (shou) carved into it. Of course, if this was intended for a French officer, this may explain the lack of the shou, or any other of the Buddhist iconography that is so common on Vietnamese arms. The short of it is, if anyone has any other ideas, I’d love to hear them. Thanks. Attached Images

31st December 2006, 02:13 PM	#2
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	An interesting piece. The guard and hilt may suggest Tonkin. I hope Phillip or Scott see this they I am sure would have some good input on this.

1st January 2007, 07:04 AM	#3
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	This saber was mounted up as a type of "guom" (narrow-bladed Vietnamese saber) with an open hilt (i.e. without knucklebow) and downcurving "pistol grip" handle. For the most part, it is a classic example of the genre, and let me quote a description by Charles Buttin of an analogous piece sold by the now-defunct Anderson Galleries in New York, 14/15 May 1926, Sale No. 2076, lot 204 "....Indo-Chinese, 18th century, Curved sword. The blade with lateral channel is of European make, it bears marks of four crosses and the date 1764. The octagonal guard is of copper, silver enriched. The hilt, silver-mounted, is of old ivory carved in octagons, squares, and a leaf. The silver-mounted scabbard of native wood , is encrusted in mother-of-pearl with birds, flowers, butterflies, bats, fruit, and leaves. Length about 82cm" The sword, which sold for the princely sum of $45, is depicted sheathed in a B/W group photo of several lots. The profile of the hilt is quite similar to that on Nick's example, as is the shape of the scabbard fittings. The main point of departure is the material of the sheath itself. The auction lot has a scabbard of purely traditional design and workmanship, whereas Nick's is metal. One thing about Nick's specimen that is interesting and atypical for Vietnamese weapons is the use of gemstones as decoration on the metal fittings.

1st January 2007, 01:11 PM	#4
RhysMichael Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Virginia Posts: 520	Great Information, thanks Philip

8th January 2007, 05:03 AM	#5
Nick Wardigo Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 54	Thanks for the information. Sorry for bumping this to the top, but I'm still wondering if anyone out there can help me identify the blade. Does anyone know if this might be a French saber pattern?

8th January 2007, 07:15 AM	#6
Paul Digard Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 13	Hi Nick Do you have any close up photos of the blade and its markings you could post? Paul