Bulgarian or Afghan knife?

[mariusgmioc]

In my opinion it is clearly a small Balkan yataghan.

[Kubur]

in my opinion its an algerian iflissen yatagan

[ariel]

Balkan.
I have an early Algerean flissa that is very much yataghan-like, but the differences are obvious.
Balkan karakulaks are massive and kind of crude, while Algerean are more elegant and carry elements that later on migrated to full-fledged flissas: doghead pommel of the handle, deeply carved blade decorations and very pointy and sharp tip..

I tend to believe that both stemmed from a classical Ottoman yataghan, but the interpretations were very different.

Top: Balkan ( likely Bulgarian) Karakulak, with Cyrillic initials and date “1838”

Bottom: early Algerian flissa.

[Kubur]

Well I didn't say flissa,
I wrote yatagan from the iflissen, Algerian copies of Balkan / Turkish yatagans...
the last one is the yataganish, some of them don't have any engravings or cooper inlays
look at the hilt of the second one...

[ariel]

Thanks for the pics. They clearly show examples of Algerean “yataghans” from Iflissen in their varieties and support the notion that they are very distinct from Balkan karakulaks ( ot Ak-kulaks if the handle was made from a light material, as in case of Rumpel9’s example).
There is a short but nice segment in Elgood’s Balkan book about magic properties of black handles, as opposed to any other variety.

Sword and knife making was the one of the main occupations of the Iflissen el-Bahr, or in French rendition Flissa-sur- mer.

[ariel]

If we are already discussing this topic, allow me to digress a little. The peculiar structure of full-blown flissas, with their disproportionally long and thin point suggest stabbing action. Was it a preferred way of their usage among the Kabyles?

They remind Tatar-Circassian sabers popularly known as Ordynkas, where stabbing action was specifically mentioned , as well as Laz Bichaqs that were clearly unfit for that purpose (or any other:-))

[mariusgmioc]

Originally Posted by ariel

If we are already discussing this topic, allow me to digress a little. The peculiar structure of full-blown flissas, with their disproportionally long and thin point suggest stabbing action. Was it a preferred way of their usage among the Kabyles?

Yes, it was. To my knowledge, like the Ottoman Janissaries, the Berbers also used chainmail till quite late in the 19th century so they developped sharp pointed Flyssas to penetrate chainmail.

My two cents...

[Kubur]

Originally Posted by ariel

Thanks for the pics. They clearly show examples of Algerean “yataghans” from Iflissen in their varieties and support the notion that they are very distinct from Balkan karakulaks ( ot Ak-kulaks if the handle was made from a light material, as in case of Rumpel9’s example).
There is a short but nice segment in Elgood’s Balkan book about magic properties of black handles, as opposed to any other variety.

Stop the fire Ariel, I'm convinced.
But I've seen some Algerian yataghan without cooper inlays and without pointed blade.
I confirm there is NO chainmail in Morocco-Algeria for the 19th c.