ALGERIAN FLINTLOCK LONG GUN

stenoyab · 20th February 2016, 07:42 PM

Thank you for the interesting info Phillip.

I tend to think mine is no earlier than mid 1850's due to overall condition, but obviously the lock could be earlier.

It cocks and fires fine and the safety catch works to hold the hammer back.

If you look at the screws the slots are very much off centre,

Heres some close up photos of the rear of the lock.

Philip · 21st February 2016, 11:06 PM

The above detail photos are much appreciated! And thanks, Sten, for the comments on how well yours works. The clarification regarding the "thingie"in front of the cock is most useful, based on that I need to amend my prior post slightly in order to keep things straight:
1. If the projection is a functioning manual safety, (as opposed to a hammer-stop as you'd find on, say, a Scottish snaphaunce, then the proper term for this type of lock is indeed "fecho meio à portuguesa e meio à francesa" as I have said earlier.
HOWEVER--

2. If it is an immobile stop for the cock's forward fall AND IS NOT A PIVOTING SAFETY PAWL, then the lock is called a "fecho de nò" or "knot lock". This is a simpler predecessor to the portuguesa/francesa type and was known as early as the second half of the 17th cent. So the later, possibly Liege-made lock for the African colonial trade in the previous pics is a last-gasp manifestation of the knot lock.

You might be interested in what the Portuguese thought of these locks back in the day, judging from the opinions of the smiths who wrote ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA (by C. Fiosconi and J. Guserio, in Lisbon 1718):

"[knot locks are not] capable of being fired in the air (i.e. muzzle elevated) since they are too stiff when pulling the trigger, and if it be wished to make them softer (i.e. easier to cock), they also become unsafe and easily uncock themselves, since the mechanism has only two parts of poor shape, and if many persons make use of them, it is because they are cheaper."

"Locks which are half Portuguese and half French are much better than those we have described, although they are slow in uncocking (i.e. have a sluggish hammer-fall), but much more durable, having the half-cock brake in the Portuguese style, outside, for which reason they must be applied to muskets and pistols, for also with them the stock is more elegant since they lave the [lock]plates in the French style."

I agree that the version of the Portuguesa/Francesa lock on the Algerian gun in this thread looks to be a handmade native copy, not an industrially-made cheap European export product. It couldn't be all that bad, though, since it works!

rickystl · 28th February 2016, 07:48 PM

Sten: Thanks so much for the additional photos. I agree with Philip that it appears to be a locally made native copy. And that it is still in working condition is even better. As I mentioned, this is only the second time I've seen this style lock mounted to a gun. By the way, I too like the sling on the gun. The whole gun has a very "tribal" look to it.

Philip: Thanks again for the great information on this lock style. Most interesting.

As a side note, here is a new made copy of a Portuguese style gun utilizing a similar lock style. This was built by a contemporary maker here in the USA. He has agreed to make another lock (only) for me, which I could utilize on a shooting gun.

Rick

20th February 2016, 07:42 PM	#1
stenoyab Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 43	Thank you for the interesting info Phillip. I tend to think mine is no earlier than mid 1850's due to overall condition, but obviously the lock could be earlier. It cocks and fires fine and the safety catch works to hold the hammer back. If you look at the screws the slots are very much off centre, Heres some close up photos of the rear of the lock. Attached Images Last edited by stenoyab; 20th February 2016 at 08:03 PM.

21st February 2016, 11:06 PM	#2
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	Horses of a different color The above detail photos are much appreciated! And thanks, Sten, for the comments on how well yours works. The clarification regarding the "thingie"in front of the cock is most useful, based on that I need to amend my prior post slightly in order to keep things straight: 1. If the projection is a functioning manual safety, (as opposed to a hammer-stop as you'd find on, say, a Scottish snaphaunce, then the proper term for this type of lock is indeed "fecho meio à portuguesa e meio à francesa" as I have said earlier. HOWEVER-- 2. If it is an immobile stop for the cock's forward fall AND IS NOT A PIVOTING SAFETY PAWL, then the lock is called a "fecho de nò" or "knot lock". This is a simpler predecessor to the portuguesa/francesa type and was known as early as the second half of the 17th cent. So the later, possibly Liege-made lock for the African colonial trade in the previous pics is a last-gasp manifestation of the knot lock. You might be interested in what the Portuguese thought of these locks back in the day, judging from the opinions of the smiths who wrote ESPINGARDA PERFEYTA (by C. Fiosconi and J. Guserio, in Lisbon 1718): "[knot locks are not] capable of being fired in the air (i.e. muzzle elevated) since they are too stiff when pulling the trigger, and if it be wished to make them softer (i.e. easier to cock), they also become unsafe and easily uncock themselves, since the mechanism has only two parts of poor shape, and if many persons make use of them, it is because they are cheaper." "Locks which are half Portuguese and half French are much better than those we have described, although they are slow in uncocking (i.e. have a sluggish hammer-fall), but much more durable, having the half-cock brake in the Portuguese style, outside, for which reason they must be applied to muskets and pistols, for also with them the stock is more elegant since they lave the [lock]plates in the French style." I agree that the version of the Portuguesa/Francesa lock on the Algerian gun in this thread looks to be a handmade native copy, not an industrially-made cheap European export product. It couldn't be all that bad, though, since it works!

28th February 2016, 07:48 PM	#3
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,621	Sten: Thanks so much for the additional photos. I agree with Philip that it appears to be a locally made native copy. And that it is still in working condition is even better. As I mentioned, this is only the second time I've seen this style lock mounted to a gun. By the way, I too like the sling on the gun. The whole gun has a very "tribal" look to it. Philip: Thanks again for the great information on this lock style. Most interesting. As a side note, here is a new made copy of a Portuguese style gun utilizing a similar lock style. This was built by a contemporary maker here in the USA. He has agreed to make another lock (only) for me, which I could utilize on a shooting gun. Rick Attached Images