What swords might have been used at the Alamo battle?

kronckew · 6th February 2024, 03:10 PM

Related:

George Hockley used a Starr sabre at San Jacinto, and Sam Houston's sword is in the Museum at the battle site. The weapons used at that decisive battle are shown HERE.

Additionally, Santa Anna's sword was captured, in the photo below. It certainly was at the Alamo. The other San Jacinto weapons would have been typical of those carried by the Texans, American and Mexican, who fought the Dictator for Independence.

The San Jacinto Battle site, Its Museum, and the nearby Battleship USS Texas (BB-35) are well worth visiting, and the traffic is probably a lot less than the Alamo. I passed by it many times while travelling between Houston & Galveston for my monthly & annual USCG Reserve duties..

fernando · 6th February 2024, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

...The San Jacinto Battle site, Its Museum, and the nearby Battleship USS Texas (BB-35) are well worth visiting, and the traffic is probably a lot less than the Alamo...

Yes indeed, Wayne. Visiting the Sky-High Monument and the Battleship were unforgettable experiences. Interesting, Museum too.

Jim McDougall · 6th February 2024, 08:00 PM

Thank you Wayne! Outstanding detail!!
Thats great abut George Hockley and his carrying a Starr saber at San Jacinto. He was a Colonel and apparently in command of the emplacement with the 'Twin Sisters', the cannon that provided decisive support in the battle.

This well illustrates the fact that many weapons found use in these campaigns, from many sources. I recall once someone in the museum in Austin asking why British M1821 sabers were found at San Jacinto.......these had clearly come with 'the package' as the huge volume of surplus British guns were sold to Mexico in 1820s. It is surprising that more 1796s didnt turn up .

Another item that seems to come up in these contexts are the M1832 foot artillery sword, a 'gladius' type brass hilt thing that was lousy as a weapon but used more as a tool. In post #2 (Fernando_) in the swords shown one is seen at top, and apparently cut down blade.

The San Jacinto 'Bowie' photos have one with turned back pommel (hook like). This seems to correspond to some espada anchas attributed to Potosi regions north of Mexico City (Adams, 1985).

One source notes that the relative scarcity of the Starr sabers is because of the 'Bowie' knife rage post Alamo, where many of these (along with numbers of full size swords) had blades cut down to become full hilted frontier knives.
This was undoubtedly of course the origin of the familiar "Confederate Bowie" with its hilt with knuckleguard.
Notice that it seems the M1832 brass hilt artillery swords were often cut down in this fashion.

Again, while we cannot be certain of what swords were in the hands of the defenders at the Alamo at that final seige in 1836, by seeing the assortment of assembled sword forms in circulation overall in these events during the Texian Rebellion gives us a good idea of what they might have been.

The first illustration: The British M1821 light cavalry saber. These branched hilts had become favored in Europe by this time, and Mexican sword hilts followed accordingly in the 1820s(see post #10).
Next" the brass hilt M1832 infantry/artillery sword, of gladius form following the neo classic French favor.
The 'Bowie' from San Jacinto.
The 'Potosi' form of espada ancha with turnback pommel (as included in my article on espada anchas (2023, Stockholm).

Hotspur · 10th February 2024, 10:55 AM

1830s U.S. militia. There were a great many 1826 Bavarian looking swords listed as Mexican and even some in the states. The sabres quite common but some straight, This one marked to Horstmann, in his new NYC shop. The unmarked brass dove head sabres quite ubiquitous. Eagles galore by the 1830s

A Starr 1818 nco at the top of the racks

Santa Anna's troops had briquet

Basically any sword made before the conflict might have been involved.

Cheers
GC

6th February 2024, 08:00 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 9,778	Thank you Wayne! Outstanding detail!! Thats great abut George Hockley and his carrying a Starr saber at San Jacinto. He was a Colonel and apparently in command of the emplacement with the 'Twin Sisters', the cannon that provided decisive support in the battle. This well illustrates the fact that many weapons found use in these campaigns, from many sources. I recall once someone in the museum in Austin asking why British M1821 sabers were found at San Jacinto.......these had clearly come with 'the package' as the huge volume of surplus British guns were sold to Mexico in 1820s. It is surprising that more 1796s didnt turn up . Another item that seems to come up in these contexts are the M1832 foot artillery sword, a 'gladius' type brass hilt thing that was lousy as a weapon but used more as a tool. In post #2 (Fernando_) in the swords shown one is seen at top, and apparently cut down blade. The San Jacinto 'Bowie' photos have one with turned back pommel (hook like). This seems to correspond to some espada anchas attributed to Potosi regions north of Mexico City (Adams, 1985). One source notes that the relative scarcity of the Starr sabers is because of the 'Bowie' knife rage post Alamo, where many of these (along with numbers of full size swords) had blades cut down to become full hilted frontier knives. This was undoubtedly of course the origin of the familiar "Confederate Bowie" with its hilt with knuckleguard. Notice that it seems the M1832 brass hilt artillery swords were often cut down in this fashion. Again, while we cannot be certain of what swords were in the hands of the defenders at the Alamo at that final seige in 1836, by seeing the assortment of assembled sword forms in circulation overall in these events during the Texian Rebellion gives us a good idea of what they might have been. The first illustration: The British M1821 light cavalry saber. These branched hilts had become favored in Europe by this time, and Mexican sword hilts followed accordingly in the 1820s(see post #10). Next" the brass hilt M1832 infantry/artillery sword, of gladius form following the neo classic French favor. The 'Bowie' from San Jacinto. The 'Potosi' form of espada ancha with turnback pommel (as included in my article on espada anchas (2023, Stockholm). Attached Images Last edited by Jim McDougall; 6th February 2024 at 08:18 PM.

10th February 2024, 10:55 AM	#4
Hotspur Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Nipmuc USA Posts: 491	1830s U.S. militia. There were a great many 1826 Bavarian looking swords listed as Mexican and even some in the states. The sabres quite common but some straight, This one marked to Horstmann, in his new NYC shop. The unmarked brass dove head sabres quite ubiquitous. Eagles galore by the 1830s A Starr 1818 nco at the top of the racks Santa Anna's troops had briquet Basically any sword made before the conflict might have been involved. Cheers GC Attached Images

6th February 2024, 03:10 PM	#1
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,152	Related: George Hockley used a Starr sabre at San Jacinto, and Sam Houston's sword is in the Museum at the battle site. The weapons used at that decisive battle are shown HERE. Additionally, Santa Anna's sword was captured, in the photo below. It certainly was at the Alamo. The other San Jacinto weapons would have been typical of those carried by the Texans, American and Mexican, who fought the Dictator for Independence. The San Jacinto Battle site, Its Museum, and the nearby Battleship USS Texas (BB-35) are well worth visiting, and the traffic is probably a lot less than the Alamo. I passed by it many times while travelling between Houston & Galveston for my monthly & annual USCG Reserve duties.. Attached Images Last edited by kronckew; 6th February 2024 at 03:36 PM.