A result of ivory regulations ???

[asomotif]

Originally Posted by Gavin Nugent

I think there is a lot too much speculation as was to what hilts these blades had. Some were silver and ray skin over bamboo, others were silver and Niello.
.

A lot of threads on the forum are largely speculation.
Where do you think this ... is from ?
How old is this ... ?

Hardly ever do I see someone refering to the autum Dha catalogue of 1832

These hilts could have been removed or harvested for other reasons.
Fact is that they are damaged and devalued by it which is a pity.

[thomas hauschild]

Yes a pitty.Newly in germany we have new laws about elephant ivory since a few month. Every trade ist strictly forbidden now. No matter if pieces are pre CITES or not.

I have around 10 pieces from a collector. Just grips and matching scabbards from badik, rencong and kris. That collector emigrates back from switzerland ( outside EU) and he wanted to save the rest of his collection. Customs pushed him to destroy these blades cause they defined them as „push-daggers“, which are forbidden items in germany.

A pitty

[gp]

Originally Posted by thomas hauschild

Yes a pitty.Newly in germany we have new laws about elephant ivory since a few month. Every trade ist strictly forbidden now. No matter if pieces are pre CITES or not.

I have around 10 pieces from a collector. Just grips and matching scabbards from badik, rencong and kris. That collector emigrates back from switzerland ( outside EU) and he wanted to save the rest of his collection. Customs pushed him to destroy these blades cause they defined them as „push-daggers“, which are forbidden items in germany.

A pitty

Sad this example but a piece of advise; one should not & never accept the word of a single customs officer just like that as being the one and only ultimate truth and being forced into something awfull like the above mentioned example!

Customs rules and regulations are not a matter decided by a single officer or the individual interpretation of a certain rule by that officer.
I am not saying at all, that the specific customs officer doesn't know his job...
but being a customs specialist, I can tell you that not all is defined and firm because just one person (or even his superior) says so! As there is more to it than meets the eye.

It is just an interpretation of the rule by an operational man or woman, who who is not actually a legislator / lawmaker or a lawyer !
Not wanted to disrespect and offend these officers who do an excellent job!

It takes too much time and knowledge of the subject to explain it into detail, but short & simple :

1. If one can state his case and substantiate this with proof, it can and will be be accepted by the customs. Customs specialist can fill you in with the details if you want to learn more.
Obviously you need to make a stronge case AND provide excellent professional proof that supports your case conform the customs regulations and legislation.

2. If # 1 still will produce a negative result, you should withdraw the import and look for an alternative legal way to proceed.
And believe me, there are plenty alternatives to import goods into the EU legally and be compliant with EU and local (the specific country's) legislation and thus in the above example have it legally be brought into Germany !

But never let someone convince you to destroy it !

Remember; cheep are there to be shaven...

And because one doesn't know the law, it doesn't mean there is a conspiacy going on or one meets with evil governmental forces, which are on a witch hunt !
They are all excellent intentions to avoid animals being killed for something stupid !

Let us as collectors not feed "das Gesundes Volksempfinden," / the "healthy feeling of the people" which is utterly subjective and ventilates feelings but does nor reflect the reality of the involved legislation...
and thus refrain from the blame game ! No disrespect to any forum members intended!☼

[Tim Simmons]

Just don't be silly they are now worthless . Move them amongst yourselves where you can. Unless you are a vandal and must sell out of the circle. For what little is left. Sad but that is the case shut.

[gp]

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Just don't be silly they are now worthless . Move them amongst yourselves where you can. Unless you are a vandal and must sell out of the circle. For what little is left. Sad but that is the case shut.

No need to be a defeatist as said it is complete legal to still have these kind of transactions.
Althoug some countries ( mostly in the anglosaxon world like to good ol' U S of A and Inglan) it is not easy ...
Even, sadly some overeager public servants do overreact, you do not take that for granted and still can import it.

If a police officer tells you to jump, you don't reply with "how high? " or do you....

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by gp

No need to be a defeatist as said it is complete legal to still have these kind of transactions.
Althoug some countries ( mostly in the anglosaxon world like to good ol' U S of A and Inglan) it is not easy ...
Even, sadly some overeager public servants do overreact, you do not take that for granted and still can import it.

If a police officer tells you to jump, you don't reply with "how high? " or do you....

Indeed they do reach beyond their scope at times.

I recently went through a seizure because of an overreacting overzealous official who had no concept of the laws they operate under nor any idea of customs exemptions for said items.

Still, there are even hoops to jump through when they get it wrong too. I may not have to ask how high, but I still need to jump.
I'm just grateful it's not my first rodeo and can bring to their attention the error of their ways... still, 4-5 weeks extra delay on already slow mail is hard to digest... meanwhile, illicit items enter borders every day while these distractions happen.

They just do their job, and all these discussions and comments by members ARE scanned and linked by AI, hence my previous comments that Ian seemed to disagree with, such discussions and notions like move them amongst yourselves are just painting targets on your backs, and are a disservice to the community

My best advise, seek proper approvals in writing where weapons and materials are concerned, and know the jurisdictions you operate in and through, both at a federal and state level. It alleviates a lot of issues and heart ache, and preserves the material culture, NOT see it destroyed through improper action.

So much can still be achieved through the right channels.

[Rick]

In Massachusetts it is legal to sell scrimshawed whales teeth. The caveat is that you are not supposed to send them anywhere out of our state. Eldred's auction house here sells a lot of whale teeth in some of their auctions.
After purchase what you do with them is your business I guess at least inside the US.